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Refractive surgery

Tino 21 Dec 2017, 11:57

Rob

Please contact me at ginolatino70@outlook.com

I'm not near a PC very often so it may take a while to respond but you can read about my experience on this thread.

Rob 17 Dec 2017, 09:54

Hi all,

I am GOC full-time user for more than three years now, and I am looking for advice to find a surgeon to operate on healthy eyes. Can you please share your experience on this?

I have almost perfect vision and I wear +6.00 contacts to wear -6.75 glasses. I am looking for IOC surgery to obtain a prescription around -8.00. My first idea is to contact overseas clinics in Asia, as I think EU clinics are less prone to operate healthy eyes -I live in EU-. Can you please share your experience on this?

Getting IOC surgery is something I have always dreamt of, and I would like to do it in the first quarter of 2018, during a two week holidays.

Please do not hesitate to contact me to share your experience on this (thinkdeen@gmail.com).

Tino 10 Jul 2017, 02:42

Stronger Glasses

I ultimately had my natural lenses removed after fist having implants but the London based surgeon I used was keen to leave as much intact as possible in order to make the process reversible.

I was referred for counselling before he would then consider removing my natural lenses.

I had this done last year and couldn't be happier

Stronger glasses 10 Jul 2017, 00:36

Hi Tino, quick Q: I have myopia of about -2.75 and also presbyopia of about 2.5. I wear varifocals.

My ideal glasses would be about -10, which would imply an ICL in the +7 to +8 range.

But I'm thinking, if you have ICL's fitted in that prescription, that means your distance close vision afterwards would have to be + whatever the new ICLs are as well as any existing correction for your close vision.

Would an RLE work better? Or are both options out of the question?

Brian 08 Jul 2017, 06:43

Adam,

If you have any questions about surgery to become more myopic then I am happy to share my experiences.

briangwebber@gmx.co.uk

Tino 08 Jul 2017, 00:55

Adam, email me at ginolatino70@outlook.com

Brian 08 Jul 2017, 00:37

Adam,

It is possible but not easy to find a surgeon to operate on healthy eyes. I was lucky and have enjoyed a several years of myopia.

Cactus Jack 07 Jul 2017, 14:53

Adam,

I don't know anyone in Mexico who might be able to suggest a contact. Perhaps some of our members can make a suggestion.

Some years ago, there was an Eye Surgeon in Mexico City, who performed a Clear Lens extraction on one of our members. That resulted in needing very high PLUS glasses (cataract glasses). There were complications where he temporarily lost vision, but fortunately he recovered and was able to wear glasses in the +26 range. I seem to remember that the doctor decided to not do elective eye surgery anymore.

The surgery you are requesting, Internal Contact Lens (ICL) installation, is much less serious, but any eye surgery is serious and NOT risk free.

You might check out Starr Surgical. They make a new type of implantable lens for Hyperopia (+ lenses) that would make you myopic. The h\Hyperopia lenses are not available in the US, but may be in other areas of the world.

I don't know the powers that are available. For -8.00 you would need something in the +7 to +8 range.

You may need to contact them, to find out what is available, but only say that you have Hyperopia in the +9 range and would like to get rid or contact lenses and glasses if possible. You might mention, is asked, that you live in the UK, but are willing to travel if necessary.

Adam 07 Jul 2017, 13:45

Cactus Jack,

I should have mentioned I already do GOC with -8 glasses. The problem is now that I'm seeing someone and it is getting serious. I either need to come out as a GOC wearer or have the surgery - which I would like to have because having to put in contacts everyday is a pain.

I do marketing.

Cactus Jack 06 Jul 2017, 18:24

Adam,

You might be able to get some +7 or +8 Internal Contact Lenses (ICLs) installed. ICLs go between your cornea and your Iris and can be removed if you change your mind, but that would involve 2 eye surgeries.

Before you commit to any surgical procedure, may I suggest trying GOC. The reason I suggest GOC, is that it is unlikely that you will be satisfied with just wearing -8.00 glasses. Most people who want to become Myopic, want to go significantly higher, well into the double digits, but there are limits to available ICL powers. Unfortunately, I don't know what they are. With GOC, you can work your way up to wearing +20 contacts and glasses in the -28 range.

The nice thing about GOC is that you can easily change your mind and get different power CLs and Glasses. If you commit for surgery, some of the surgeries are NOT easily reversible.

May I ask your occupation?

Adam 06 Jul 2017, 14:09

Cactus Jack,

Thanks for your response.

I'm 29 years old living in the UK. I currently have 20/20 vision and would like to be at least -8.00

I have a holiday to Mexico booked this year and have heard it may be easier to have the surgery there.

Cactus Jack 05 Jul 2017, 18:35

Adam,

It has been done, but it is very difficult to find an Eye Surgeon that will do it. The Oath of Hippocrates, which most doctors have taken, prohibits doing "harm". Doctors are mostly "hard wired" for making things better, not worse.

It would be helpful if you could provide your age, actual prescription, your desired prescription, and where you live.

Sometimes, if a person has BIID (Body integrity identity disorder) confirmed by a Psychiatrists, a surgeon will agree to do it.

Adam 05 Jul 2017, 14:26

Does anyone know any clinics who will insert ICLs into your eyes to make your vision worse?

Likelenses 20 Mar 2017, 00:14

Goodbye to her minus 30's

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/health/medicine-and-research/Girl-wins-the-battle-for-good-vision/article13376851.ece

13 Feb 2017, 18:28

The U.S. President has had Lasik

Jeni 13 Feb 2017, 17:42

My friend is friom America and she had lasik before she was with -2.00 which I don't think is that bad. She can't believe I don't want the surgery and I'm more shortsighted than she was. 20 million in how many years? Is that slot or nothing compared to the amount of people that are shortsighted

Soundmanpt 11 Feb 2017, 09:14

Jeni

I have read that over 20 million people have had lasik surgery. That is a worldwide number. I don't know which country has the lead. I also read something that the rate has actually been decreasing over the past few years. They sited that there was an increases once the procedure became more perfected. So it makes sense that there was a sort of rush for getting it done. But once all those people that were holding off until they felt it was safer got it done the rate would go down some. And since eye wear has become quite a fashion statement for many women and actually I think more women was getting lasik than men anyway for vanity sake. But now many boutique store have several racks of fake glasses just for fashion. That clearly has had some effect on the number of people getting lasik. For many the price is still an expense they can't afford. And lastly many are scared of the surgery.

Jeni 11 Feb 2017, 03:29

How many people get lasik? Which county is it most popular to get it in? I'm shortsighted and don't want the surgery it didn't bother one to wear lenses. I read many people have it in America so don't wear glasses anymore

12 Nov 2016, 12:35

Interesting story from the Instagram

girl was initially moderate myopic

http://www.instagram.com/p/0d8u3zvAgc/

then she has been diagnosed with glaucoma and her natural lens surgically removed

http://www.instagram.com/p/BD4kNO0vArC/

and now she is aphakic with moderate plus glasses (but not as high because she was nearsighted before)

http://www.instagram.com/p/994_xaPAoi/

and here is her comment about her visual acuity

http://www.instagram.com/p/9HSe7sPAte/

So glaucoma is not a rare disease, right. But is this a real chance for someone like Tino to become aphakic? Or that particular case is unusual

Soundmanpt 31 Oct 2016, 11:00

Alex

I don't think glasses will ever just be a think of the past for several reasons. First off there are some people that have corneas that are too thin to be able to do lasik on. There are also a god number of people that fear the whole idea of getting the surgery done. Then as long as the insurances don't start paying a much bigger portion of the surgery for many the cost is too high. And in recent years many women now consider wearing glasses a fashion accessory. I even read recently that the number of people getting lasik has actually dropped quite a bit recently as well. There even seems to be a good number of people that after having lasik start missing their glasses and regret having had it done.

Alex 31 Oct 2016, 02:08

Now is the record number of people with myopia ever but there are a lot of people having lasik, do you think glasses will be a thing of the past if people continue to have the surgery or is there too many people out there so glasses will always be worn?

Tino 24 Sep 2016, 01:08

Likelenses

I guess my need is more about being aphakic and requiring the correction than simply the glasses and that's maybe why I ended up having two procedures when one would have done if I'd been clearer about my goals.

Although there is a common theme, I'm sure everyone is different and, as your name suggests, perhaps the interest that brings you to Eyescene is more about the glasses than mine and I have now come to understand that these are just part of my own need. Therein lies the lesson too.... if you find yourself in the situation where surgery is an option, I can't stress the importance of establishing what your true motivation and objectives are in order to ensure you stand the best chance of achieving your underlying desire. Although I thought I knew and was sceptical at first it's testimony to the counsellor's craft that I believe this is now 100% understood in my case.

In short, having had the IOLs fitted I felt scarcely different to when I was doing GOC but now I have a different feeling which is hard to explain but essentially I feel fulfilled and complete. And it's much less uncomfortable explaining to optometrists!

Likelenses 23 Sep 2016, 17:28

Tino

I am confused. Why did you go through two surgeries to become severely hyperopic,and now wear contacts rather than glasses.

Tino 23 Sep 2016, 01:53

Hi NJ

It was just down to my own stupidity I guess and perhaps not thinking the whole thing through properly....

+8 was the GOC prescription I'd always used so this is what I requested and, when asked later, I simply said I had had cataracts removed but kept my original prescription as a matter of choice.

You're right in that then justifying this during examinations was a bit uncomfortable and, along with an overwhelming desire to be aphakic, led to me going back to the same surgeon and asking for the implants to be removed. On his request I had some counselling where we discussed BIID and the impact of not being straight with my family etc. I'm just grateful that the counsellor and surgeon seemed to agree that surgery was the best option as I really was depressed about the prospect of having to live with any sort of lens in my eyes for the rest of my life.

In hindsight I should of course gone for the extraction straight away but I was confused about my true desire and I'm not the sort of person to opt for counselling without being told to. Not only would this have saved me a significant amount of money, the second procedure was harder to get over and of course I would have enjoyed the sense of completeness I now enjoy for the previous 3 years.

The increase in prescription to +11.5 in nice but wasn't my main motivation and, while I love the look of my glasses (particularly sunglasses), I have recently got contacts and spend a lot of time wearing these and just use reading glasses for close work

NJ 21 Sep 2016, 08:23

Sorry, that last post was for Tino, not LXW.

NJ 21 Sep 2016, 08:22

LXW, forgive me, did you have ICLs put in that were too low power? Just wondering why you didn't go for the much simpler surgery of a clear lens extraction, without IOL or ICL. You would have gotten a higher plus prescription and you won't have to answer the question from every optometrist on why your ICLs are so underpowered.

LXW 21 Sep 2016, 06:09

Hello Tino, thanks for your message! Nice to hear that everything is ok and you are happy now. It must be a dream for you...

I have worked hard in the last months, but unfortunately there is to surgeon who will put ICLs in my eyes, it´s a drama and very sad for me. But i am looking forward to "follow you" and get my dream come true - one day!

Tino 05 Sep 2016, 00:34

Nothing really to update, but if you're interested...

I ordered new glasses based on my current prescription but these are only OK (but better than the GOC ones I had been using) as I was told it would be 6 weeks before it 'settled down'. I've got a final consultation next week with my surgeon so I can hopefully be discharged and will then go for a second test so I can indeed see properly.

All in all though, I'm loving it

Likelenses 03 Sep 2016, 22:10

Very odd that Tino has not updated us.

I hope it is not because he is unable to see after the surgery.

LXW 03 Sep 2016, 06:16

Hello Tino, time is running, one month is gone... Please let us know if everything is good on your side. Hope the healing process has ended good.

Best wishes, Alex

LEOinPERTH 06 Aug 2016, 04:55

Tino

+11 +12 Would be a dream come true for me !!!

Hope all goes well ,Tino .

Take care

LXW 06 Aug 2016, 00:09

Tino, everything sounds good and prism in glasses are really nice! I hope your eyes will heal very good in the next days. You did the right steps for your life.

Please tell me, is there a little bit of light at the end of the corridor for people like me and other here? You recall what i want for my eyes? Some lines below is a description about my big dream :-)

Thanks for all, Alex

Tino 05 Aug 2016, 02:05

I reckon it's about +11 or +12 which is a bit less than anticipated but that's not really the point. I have very little accommodation and have already experienced my eyes turning out so may well need a nice bit of prism as well as an add.

One eye was done 10 days ago and is healing nicely but the second was only done this week and is still too scratchy and misty to allow me to get an eye test done. In hindsight I never should have got the IOLs fitted a few years back and gone straight for removal as in all honesty that was always my objective.

LXW 05 Aug 2016, 01:26

Yeah Tino, congrats from my side too!! I am so happy to read that you have made your dream come true :-)

Please tell us more, it could be very interesting for us.

Thank you, Alex

hyperaficionado 05 Aug 2016, 01:00

@ Tino - congratulations!

Very nice. So what's your rx now?

Best,

Tino 05 Aug 2016, 00:14

Aphakic at last

helpful 01 Jun 2016, 23:23

Briangwebber posted a great deal on ES over the years on his experiences but recently has not been contactable. Any stalwarts here any news whereby i might contact him

LXW 24 Apr 2016, 23:55

bracesfan

Yes i know, but it seems that nobody is writing here about the results of searching for an surgeon. So Tino is the "little light" for me and i hope he will achieve his goal very soon! Oh, you want to go really "high" with -20 diopters, that´s a big step. For me the range from -6 to -10 diopters would be a dream! This is the range i do GOC and i am very satisfied with it. We can also exchange by mail. MTN (a) gmx dot net - this is where anybody can reach me. I hope very much that Tino will give me some lines.

Thanks, Alex

bracesfan 21 Apr 2016, 23:04

LXW:

Surely there are much more of us seeking for such change of their vision. My logtime, hardly real, dream is myopia about 20 diopters. Loving lenticulars I have tried a bunch of surgeons but no success. Nice to see there is at least one understanding our feelings.

LXW 21 Apr 2016, 09:02

Tino!

Thank you so much for your post. It sounds very good to me and i see a little light in the end of the corridor :-) So i think it is also possible for the surgeon to implant plus lenses into my healthy eyes. Perhaps my dream will come true...

I hope you will achieve your goal very soon! I know how you are feel at the moment.

Ok, i understand your decision. But it would be very nice if we can stay in contact, you are my last hope at the moment. Perhaps we can exchange our mail adresses if it is possible here. Or instead you can contact "Cactus", he knows about my "problem" and has my adress.

Thanks for all, Alex

Tino 20 Apr 2016, 11:11

LXW

I had a procedure in London 3 years ago to implant minus lenses into my otherwise healthy eyes to make me +8 which was a total success but my goal has always been to be aphakic and recently I have sought to obtain further surgery.

I'm currently consulting with the same surgeon who is reknowned and respected in this field with a view to achieving my goal and, as part of that also speaking to a counsellor who specialises in BIID.

The issue I have is that the lensectomy and vitrectomy I would need to have are much less reversible than the lens exchange so there is a greater reluctance on the surgeons part but, at a cost and after the specialist counselling, I'm hopeful that by the summer I will have achieved my goal.

The surgeon did say before that he was willing for me to refer people to him and while, as I'm sure you'll understand, I want to ensure my own research and efforts aren't jeopardised first, I will be in a position to think about sharing the details of both the surgeon and the counsellor once I have had the surgery

LXW 11 Apr 2016, 12:06

Hello Cactus, Likelenses, LEO in PERTH, and Stingray, thanks for your comments!

@Likelenses: Yes, i have tried it in Mexico, India and other countries around the world, but i have no luck :-(

I also was in contact with "Cactus Jack" who explained me a lot about the human eye and i am very thankful about it! He also contacted me with Brian, a man which is known here and has fullfilled his dream to become a very high myope. But all this couldn´t help me...

@Cactus: Thank you so much for your thoughts, it´s a very good idea, yes! But i have to think about it, it´s not easy to go the step to a mental health professional... But maybe the only one.

I also appreciate any other help around the world, thanks for all!!

Alex

LEO inPERTH 11 Apr 2016, 08:07

Stringray

True, but She might know someone who would understand?

Stingray 11 Apr 2016, 06:40

Renee Richards is 82 years old. I wouldn't want her operating on me at that age.

LEO in PERTH 11 Apr 2016, 06:38

Dose anybody remember DR Renee Richards (tennis player in USA), who underwent gender reassignment in 1975?

DR Renee might understand ,and Dr Renee is A EYE SURGEON in the USA.

Likelenses 10 Apr 2016, 16:34

Have you tried third world countries.

Mexico, India ,etc.?

Cactus Jack 10 Apr 2016, 16:32

LXW,

What you are running into is the Hippocratic Oath. Here is a link to it both in ancient and modern terms.

www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/hippocratic-oath-today.htm

The short version is "First to no harm". Most people in the healing professions are there because they want to help people. They don't think that making you more Myopic is helping you, which clashes with their oath. Most ECPs are oriented on making people see better, not worse (in their opinion).

In the past few years, Psychiatrists and Psychologists have realized that there is such a thing as BIID - Body Integrity Identity Disorder and it is real. Most mental health professionals recognize that there are many versions of BIID and while Sex Change operations are the most publicized, there can be other conditions that are equally as serious and life affecting.

I would suggest you change the focus of your efforts and go at this from the mental health direction. Your frustration is not healthy in the long run. If a mental health professional (MHP) decides that becoming very Myopic would help your mental health, I suspect they will help you. The fact that an ICL is reversible, may make the recommendation for Refractive Surgery easier.

I wish you well.

LXW 10 Apr 2016, 12:40

Hello again! Sorry for this, but i would to ask you something - only for my understanding...

It is possible to get your leg(s), arm(s), or whatever, amputated because you have BIID (Body Integrity Identity Disorder). And you can´t make this irreversible and it´s a big change for the person.

But apparently it´s a drama for the surgeons to implant lenses (ICL) in minutes to a "normal sight" people although it´s reversible... I think i don´t understand the world, i am sorry. Yes, ok, there is always a risk, but hey, they do it hundred times a day, so why not to me??!!

Thanks, Alex (LXW)

LXW 09 Apr 2016, 08:13

Hello everybody, i am desperate and at the end of my power... I found nobody who can make me a (high) myope person forever. My dream is to be short sighted in the range between -6 and -10 dpt. It is possible with ICLs (with plus power) in both eyes, i am convinced. And some readings through the net confirmed me.

But i come from germany and have sent several mails around the world to eye clinics. I get always the same answer: Yes it´s possible, but we are sorry we can´t do it because of ethics. (Or something like this)

I often do GOC or wear contacts (with very little power), so the people around me knows about "my eye weakness", and even at work i have no problem with glasses (GOC) or contacts. But doing GOC is not the same as beeing a really myope person.

So i don´t know who to make my dream come true. Is there anybody outhere who could help me? Please, please... Thank you so much!

Greets from germany, LXW

Tino 19 Jan 2016, 03:00

Likelenses

I'm not sure if your comment was tongue in cheek but if I could I would. Displacing the implants I currently have is something I regularly attempt in the hope that I will cause a surgical need to be left aphakic

Likelenses 18 Jan 2016, 16:43

Tino

perhaps you could do it yourself.

Tino 18 Jan 2016, 11:10

Thanks NJ

If I was able to travel to Mexico I would but leaving the country would alert my family to the fact that my requirements maybe aren't as they first seem.

I've considered finding a surgeon to replace the implanted lenses I already have but then trying to terminate the surgery part way through after the natural lens had been removed but before the new one was implanted....

NJ 18 Jan 2016, 10:05

Tino, I think BIID is an accurate diagnosis but I'm not sure how far you'll get going down this path. I have to assume that so few people manifest BIID in terms of wanting a visual impairment that there just isn't the epidemiological data to be convincing. Most docs are very conservative in this respect.

It sounds like all you need is a simple explantation surgery to remove the IOL. Like CJ said, becoming an extreme hyperope is quite easy compared to becoming an extreme myope.

Perhaps you can use the argument that you have low vision, in the 20/60 range or so, and the added magnification will help you to read normal print and distant details. This was my cover story, but in the end I didn't really need it as no one really asked.

I don't know what you budget for travel and surgery is, but here's a place in Mexico that I think will d it: http://www.angeleshealth.com/

I found two places in Mexico and one in India, but Mexico is much closer to me. I don't remember the costs.

Tino 18 Jan 2016, 05:08

Hyperaficionado

Thanks for that, I've tried to talk to someone about this before and they seem only concerned in talking me out of it but nonetheless, it's an avenue I'm exploring again.

hyperaficionado 18 Jan 2016, 02:51

@Tino

you should consider contacting or looking for a psychologist who specializes in BIID. I'm not sure if this is a matter for psychologists or psychiatrists.

I'm sure you know what BIID stands for. Just in case: it stands for Body Integrity Identity Disorder.

I'm certain that if you don't find a surgeon who's willing to do what you want with the help of an official diagnosis of BIID they'll perform the surgery you wish for.

Just an idea.

Best,

hyperaficionado

Tino 18 Jan 2016, 02:12

Cactus Jack

Many thanks for your reply.

My needs are so much part of me that after 30+ years of having this need and 10+ of simulation there is zero chance of me changing my mind now and my need is now consuming me so much that it impacts on my daily routine.

Incidentally, I also had some correspondence from the 'Mexican patient' as well as quite an amusing one claiming to be from his surgeon. Needless to say, even if I was able to travel to Mexico from the UK for surgery, I don't think I'd humour him with my enquiry.

I'm all too aware that I have probably spent more time and with possibly more success than most in finding a surgeon to help me but I now feel further than ever from fulfilling my needs so remain desperate to hear from anyone that could point me in the right direction.

Cactus Jack 17 Jan 2016, 18:36

Owlish,

You are absolutely correct. I should have said it differently because there is an occasional need for low plus IOL when a person with High Myopia needs an IOL. All the lenses in the eye are PLUS and the natural Crystalline Lenses range in power from about +17 to +26 according to this paper. http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/scenario/labman3/eye.htm

Myopia is generally caused by too much PLUS in the eye's lens system for the distance from the Crystalline Lens to the Retina. If it becomes necessary or even desirable to remove the natural Crystalline Lens, it is a great opportunity to reduce the total PLUS in the Lens System by installing an IOL of very low power. I really should have thought of that. Before I had Cataract Surgery, my left eye was -4.50 if I remember right. A +11 IOL was installed and now my left eye is about +0.50.

It would be interesting to know what her final prescription is.

If you do the vertex distance calculations for -22 glasses, her prescription at the cornea was -16. There is no way to estimate the actual power of her Crystalline Lenses because there are too many factors involved. Prior to the surgery, I am pretty sure all the dimensions involved were measured by ultra sound and the IOL power determined weeks before the surgery. At least that is the way it was before my Surgeries.

I sincerely hope your friend is doing well. While it is common to correct major refractive errors during refractive surgery, it has no effect on the risks high Myopes have of Retinal Detachment.

I did a little research on available lens powers. Bausch and Lomb offers IOLs in the +10 to +33 range, but I found one vendor that made specialty IOLs for high Myopia in the -6.00 to +5.00 range. I had not seen that in previous searches.

Cactus Jack 17 Jan 2016, 18:36

Owlish,

It would be interesting to know what her final prescription is.

I sincerely hope your friend is doing well. While it is common to correct major refractive errors during refractive surgery, it has no effect on the risks high Myopes have of Retinal Detachment.

Owlish 17 Jan 2016, 15:54

Cactus Jack, yes, ordinarily "IOLs are not made in low powers or MINUS powers because there is no need." but occasionally there is a need and they can be used.

A good friend of mine who was very myopic developed cataract in one eye. Her glasses lens for that side was -22. After surgery I saw the paper record of the procedure and the doctor had implanted a low plus (+4?)IOL. I was surprised at the time that plus would be needed in such a myopic eye.

I didn't hear anything about delay or difficulty in obtaining such lenses and I don't know whether minus lenses are a possibility or not.

Cactus Jack 17 Jan 2016, 11:29

lentifan,

It is certainly possible that it was a hoax. If it was, it was not he first and will not the last. I have to admit that I was a bit skeptical, Hoaxes are one of the hazards of using websites such as ES.

I guess the point of all of this is: "Be careful what you wish for!". It may happen in ways you never expected.

lentifan 17 Jan 2016, 07:46

Cactus Jack

In your very detailed reply to Tino below you refer to one of our members who had capsule removal done in Mexico. While one can never be sure, I suspect that was a hoax. I corresponded with him for a little after his story appeared here as I too was interested in the process. However a few of his replies seemed to me not very convincing, such as that his +28 distance glasses were 'full field' and not lenticular, that despite being aphakic he had no bifocal or monovision glasses and had to change from distance to reading glasses in the supermarket to read a label. His first few messages had a lot of typos, as though he was trying to exhibit poor vision, but were in a very large font, which would scarcely be required with +28 glasses. He would not need to see things bigger!

After I gently queried one or two of those surprising aspects, the conversation stopped and they announced they were going somewhere there was no Wi-Fi. My attempts to contact him have just bounced back. If you or anyone else has heard of his progress I would be interested, if only to prove my suspicions misplaced.

Cactus Jack 16 Jan 2016, 09:52

Tino,

Fundamentally, you had Cataract Surgery with a substantially lower power IOL than your natural Crystalline lens. The natural Crystalline Lens is between +17 and +26 and IOLs are not made in low powers or MINUS powers because there is no need.

I had Cataract Surgery in 2001. My prescription before the surgery was about -4.50 in my left eye and to achieve close to 20/20 in that eye required a +11 IOL. I opted for Mono Vision and mild Myopia in my right eye. The prescription in my right eye was about -2.75 and I wound up with +16 in that eye.

Today's Cataract Surgery is extremely safe and is commonly done as a very quick Outpatient Procedure. Several events occur after the IOL is inserted. The most important one is that the back membrane of the Crystalline Lens Capsule (sack) attaches itself to the IOL and removal of the IOL without removal of the remainder of the Lens Capsule is impossible.

The Lens Capsule is left pretty much intact in modern Cataract Surgery. Only the front membrane is removed to allow installation of the IOL. The reason for preserving as much of the Capsule as possible is that it performs a very important secondary function. It provides a seal between the Vitreous Humor (thick gel) inside the eyeball and the Aqueous Humor (watery fluid) between the Cornea and the Crystalline Lens. Complete removal of the Crystalline Lens Capsule, as had to be done in Cataract Surgery before the development of IOLs, was VERY serious surgery.

You may have heard that in old days, the rule was that Cataract Surgery SHOULD NOT be performed until the Cataract was "ripe". I think the real hope was that the patient would die before Cataract Surgery was necessary. In those days, the recovery from Cataract Surgery requires MONTHS rather than hours or days with modern surgery. Often the patient had to remain in bed with sand bags to prevent head movement. Occasionally, it is still necessary to completely remove the Crystalline Lens Capsule in Cataract Surgery. The recovery is a bit shorter, if there are no complications, but there is no guarantee that there will be NO complications.

A while back, one of our members made arrangements for complete Capsule Removal in Mexico. Even with modern surgical techniques he developed Retinal Inflammation and lost his vision. Fortunately, he recovered from that and was able to see with +26 glasses. During his re-habilitation process, his lack of peripheral vision with his glasses led to his falling down a stairway. Fortunately, nothing was broken. He was very fortunate in another way, his brother was able to accompany him to Mexico and stay with him during recovery. The last post I saw from his brother was that they were going to some remote location to finish his re-hab.

The point of all this is that complete removal of the Crystalline Lens capsule is a very serious, life changing event. In some respects, the only thing more serious is complete loss of sight and all the things that go along with that. You have to learn how to live and function all over again.

I think you need to think long and hard before considering Complete Capsule Removal, because of the potential, non-reversible, consequences. There is another procedure that is potentially reversible and not as dangerous. You may be able to find a surgeon that would install an Internal MINUS lens (ICL) between your Cornea and Pupil. That also requires a tiny incision in the side of your cornea and it is removable.

Of course, you can also do GOC with a strong MINUS contact and that is very reversible. However, I suspect you have considered that and does not satisfy your needs. Let me ask you a question. You were initially satisfied with the IOL that requires you to wear +8 glasses. If you have your Capsule and IOL removed and become dis-satisfied with wearing glasses in the +30 range, what will you do as an encore?

Tino 16 Jan 2016, 04:42

Cactus Jack

I'm 48 by the way

Tino 16 Jan 2016, 04:41

Cactus Jack

My prescription prior to surgery was around -1 and I managed to find a UK based surgeon who was willing to remove my healthy natural lenses and give me single vision IOLs which left me with approx +8 and a +2.5 add. You're right the procedure involved removing my natural lenses through a process of laser and suction through an incision in the corner of my eye.

I opted for this as a halfway house but now wish to achieve my need to be totally aphakic which I understand would leave me with a prescription of around +12 and also a further need for a reading add.

The original surgeon, perhaps understandably is unwilling to perform the second procedure and having looked far and wide initially, I'm despondent that I'm now unlikely to be able to get the surgery I need and am desperate to find an alternative

If you can help me in any way it would be most appreciated

Cactus Jack 15 Jan 2016, 15:25

Tino,

What was your prescription before the surgery and what is it after the surgery? Was the surgery similar to modern Cataract Surgery where your natural Crystalline Lens was emulsified and sucked out through a tiny incision in the side of your Cornea snd an Intra Ocular Lens (IOL) inserted through that same incision?

Did you have any evidence of Cataract before the surgery?

May I ask your Age?

Lots of questions, but answers may help provide and answer.

Tino 15 Jan 2016, 05:33

I was fortunate enough to find a surgeon in the UK around 3 years ago who was willing to perform lens implant surgery for which I remain eternally grateful. The issue I have is that I now wish to have these removed to leave me aphakic and he is understandably unwilling to perform the procedure.

While I realise I'm about to be told to quit while I'm ahead I would be most grateful if anyone could point me in the direction of an alternative surgeon who may be able to help. I'm willing to pay pretty much whatever it takes to achieve my dream, my email is ginolatino70@outlook.com if you prefer to approach me this way.

LXW 26 Aug 2015, 01:01

Cactus Jack,

thank you, i am looking forward to read something interesting from him...

Yes, i hope there are some other manufacturers which can provide PLUS ICLs that go between the cornea and the iris.

Thanks for all and i will tell you what´s going on.

Alex

Cactus Jack 25 Aug 2015, 15:07

LXW,

I have forwarded your email address as promised.

If there are no PLUS available from Visian, there should be no problem obtaining PLUS ICLs that go between the cornea and the Iris.

Good luck and please keep us advised.

LXW 25 Aug 2015, 12:56

Cactus Jack,

i have read it sometime ago that some ICL´s also produced in plus, i really think on it!

But i think IOL are good too. Let´s wait, my time is coming!

Alex

Cactus Jack 25 Aug 2015, 12:13

LXW,

I have not checked in a long time, but the last time I checked, Visian did not offer PLUS lenses, only MINUS lenses. That could have changed.

I look forward to hearing from you.

LXW 25 Aug 2015, 09:22

Cactus Jack,

thank you so much for your detailed answer! It was a pleasure for me to read your summary and thoughts about "Refractive surgery" and the stories from other users.

I think it costs a lot of time to write all the stuff, thank you.

I understand all of your writings because i have read so much in the last year, here at eyescene and on some pages which offers professional eye surgery in europe. It is not easy to understand all the connections and solutions which are existent.

I think point "1" under your "Surgical" section is the right one for me. And yes, i know that it is quiet impossible to have this done in Europe or the US because of the things you have mentioned. And yes again, i realize that there is always a little probability of complications! But hey, i have only one life and i want to make my dream come true...

I have read that there are lenses to correct the refractive error from +10D to -20D, so there is a big smile on my face. And another point makes me happy, i have read: "Because the Visian ICL is placed behind the iris, it is undetectable to the naked eye and can only be seen through a microscope". (because it is positioned behind the iris and in front of the natural lens)

I am 40 years old, male, live in germany and i am self-employed. I am an electro technician and do a lot of CAD work at the computer.

Later i will sent you a mail, thanks for your offer!

Alex

Cactus Jack 24 Aug 2015, 20:36

Alex (LXW),

There have been a few members get refractive surgery (in Mexico, I think). One or two members wanted to become extremely Myopic and at least one wanted to be extremely Hyperopic. Becoming extremely Hyperopic is the easiest because all that is typically necessary to become extremely Hyperopic and require very high plus glasses (Cataract Glasses) is to have the Crystalline lenses and the lens capsule removed like they used to years ago before IOLs were developed. However, complete removal of the lens and capsule is a very risky procedure.

The surgery to become extremely Myopic is a bit more complicated. You understand the fundamentals by doing GOC. Myopia is caused by a mismatch between the Total PLUS in your eye's lens system and the distance from the back of your Crystalline Lenses to your Retina. There are several ways to increase the Total PLUS in your eye's lens system:

Non-Surgical

GOC like you have been doing with the PLUS contacts. Very safe and reversible if you use good CL lens care and hygiene.

Surgical

1. Have a PLUS Internal Contact Lens (ICL) installed between your Cornea and your Iris. This can be done through a tiny incision in the side of your cornea and no stitch is required. This typically does not affect your ability to ability to accommodate - provided Presbyopia has not progressed to far - because your Ciliary Muscles and natural Crystalline Lenses are intact. One of the neat things about ICLs is that they can be removed and replaced, surgically, if desired or needed.

2. Have your natural Crystalline Lenses removed substantially stronger PLUS Intraocular Lenses (IOL) installed. This is the same procedure that is used today for Cataracts. The rear membrane of the lens capsule remains intact, but the front membrane is mostly removed to facilitate emulsification of your natural lenses and installation of the IOLs. eplacing your natural Crystalline Lenses eliminates your ability to accommodate and focus and is permanent. The best vision is provided by Single Vision IOLs and Bifocal, Progressives, or Trifocals for focusing, but multi-focal IOLs are also available. Multi-focal IOLs are getting better, but most Eye Surgeons will advise against them if really good VA is desired at all distances.

In both Surgical procedures 1 and 2 there is an upper limit on the resulting Myopia because ICLs and IOLs are not available beyond a certain PLUS power.

3. For Myopia beyond the limits of 1 and 2, have both both procedures.

One of our members, who wished to be very Myopic had both procedures done about 5 years ago. To correct his myopia today, he needs -28 myodiscs or -21 contacts. His glasses prescription is actually a bit less than I expected, because he is able to wear his glasses very close to his eyes to minimize Vertex Distance effects, which are significant at those powers.

He recently asked me to calculate the PLUS power of GOC contacts that would allow him to wear even stronger glasses. His uncorrected refractive power is now +21 diopters (the opposite of his CL power). The resulting calculations were a surprise. I calculated the CL power needed to be able to wear -45 glasses. Very close to +6.00. His current VA with his -28 glasses is about 20/30 and would be less with -45 glasses for several reasons related to how the retina and optic nerve work together (similar to pixels in a digital camera).

I mentioned your interest in refractive surgery to become more myopic and he agreed to chat with you about it, privately. He asked me if I would act as an intermediary and I agreed to protect his privacy. If you will contact me privately at cactusjack1928@hotmail.com with your email address, I will provide it to him and he can contact you directly.

There are many considerations about having vision altering surgery that you need to think about.

1. It is unlikely that any Ophthalmic Surgeons in Europe or the US will perform the surgery for ethical and liability reasons.

2. Likely places to have the surgery are Mexico or India.

3. IOL and ICL surgeries are very safe, but complications are possible and you will have little or no recourse.

4. IOL or ICL surgeries are MUCH safer than complete removal of the Crystalline Lens and Capsule (or Sack) such as was necessary before IOL surgery was developed. Recovery took months and Retinal inflammation with possible blindness, was the big risk.

5. Most refractive surgeries are a lifetime decision and you will get to enjoy the results for the rest of your life.

I hope this helps. Regrettably, I do not know the maximum PLUS power IOLs or ICLs that are available.

May I ask your age and occupation?

LXW 21 Aug 2015, 01:14

Hello to all,

i am doing goc for some time now and my desire to get a real myope is getting greater and stronger.

I wear plus cl's in combination with -12D glasses and i feel very good even in business. I can do all things that i want and the people around me and my friends are used to that i wear glasses near all the time.

For some weeks i wear the cl's night and day without putting them out of my eyes, so i have to wear my glasses all the time. And i like it very much!

So my question is: Is there any solution for people like me to get real myopic in the range -10 to -15D? I have written to many eye-hospitals, but no one will do anything to my near perfect vision... My wish is to get plus lenses implanted to both of my eyes, but i am open for any other things to get really myopic

I am 40 years old now, male, and my decision is fallen.

Would be great if anybody outthere could help me to make my biggest dream come true. Thank you!

You can reach me here or by mail

Many thanks and regards from germany and sorry for my bad english,

Alex

LEO in PERTH 04 Dec 2014, 06:19

Gocist

Thank you gocist ,that's the way I feel, to good to be true!

GreginColo 03 Dec 2014, 20:24

I also have been curious/concerned regarding not hearing anything more from Smithy and Hans. His communications here and by personal email caused me to think they were real, despite the extreme measures undertaken to achieve an extreme level of myopia. When someone does just drop away it makes one wonder, but in this case I might also have concern about two highly myopic guys traveling through South America by bus. If there story was true, they both would have both had quite limited peripheral vision so would been somewhat disadvantaged in any type of attack. While I hope they weren't just faking out those who expressed interest and concern with their situation, I more so hope they are okay and weren't subjected to any form of foul play.

goc:ist 03 Dec 2014, 16:06

LEO in PERTH 03 Dec 2014, 06:11

Anyone herd from SMITHY ?

I more and more have camed to the conclusion that both Smithy and his "friend" Hans is just two more fake persons that comes and goes, especially on lenschat, that also have maked me fedup on visiting Lenschat a number of fake persons that shows up and disapear again after a short while lying and telling nice stories.

Of course probably more then half of the members are not fakers. But as usual if it sounds to good to be true it mostly isnt true either....

That place and people have given me so many dissapointments that I have lost more or less all interests in visiting it.

And I mean deals abt meeting IRL and so on. I wonder what that persons get out of it ?! Playing games with other people is very rude. But they probably get good laughs over it.

lEO in PERTH 03 Dec 2014, 06:11

Anyone herd from SMITHY ?

Cactus Jack 12 Aug 2014, 05:25

brianwebber,

Sorry to be slow in answering one of your questions.

In one of your posts on11 Aug 2014, you asked: ""Walking into the sun the outer swirling was particularly noticeable as it seemed much brighter than the clear inner part. As a consequence I was continually noticing it. Why did it appear so bright".

When you were younger, did you ever play with a magnifying glass and use it to concentrate the sun's rays to burn something? A magnifying glass is a strong PLUS lens. The area around the bowl in your new glasses is a PLUS lens, just not nearly as strong as the PLUS lens in the magnifying glass (also, the area around the bowl is not intended to be as carefully made as a PLUS glasses lens would be.

The PLUS part of your glasses concentrates the sun's rays and makes them brighter. but it is very unlikely that the the PLUS part of your glasses is strong enough and the Focus Distance is short enough for you to notice any increase in temperature of the concentrated infrared rays of the sun or for the intensity to be bright enough to be anything other than uncomfortable if you happened to look through that part of your glasses, at the sun.

Even with all your present optical complexity, the warning about never looking directly at the sun without suitable protection, still applies. The additional PLUS in your eyes and the MINUS in your glasses combine to focus (concentrate) the distant image of the sun on your retina and you will permanently damage those precious rods and cones that live there.

brianwebber 11 Aug 2014, 16:23

Thanks Greg and Leo for the good wishes.

Much appreciated.

Brian

brianwebber 11 Aug 2014, 16:21

Cactus jack,

I would never have thought of trying travel sick pills. They worked a treat! I had a much better day in the new spex. Thank you.

I need not have worried about what my two friends would say about the full Rx glasses. They didn't seem to even notice and we just chatted and got along as normal. So relief all round.

LEO in PERTH 11 Aug 2014, 09:43

Brianwebber

Good Luck Brian , hope all goes well.

As the younger generation would say, You Living The Dream!!!

Iám still dreaming ,with GOC as my friend.

Best Wishes

GreginColo 11 Aug 2014, 08:25

Brian; good luck as you get used to your new glasses and thanks for sharing the experience with us. Also good luck as you first meet up with friends for the the first time in your stronger glasses. Let us know how it goes, Regards, Greg

brianwebber 11 Aug 2014, 04:13

Cactus Jack,

Again a spot on explanation I can understand. These new blended myos are indeed a challenge to get used to.

Last evening it was beautifully sunny and a walk in the park beckoned. Walking with the sun in my back was relatively ok but wearing the new glasses and walking into the sun was problematic. As I can try to explain I think there are three problems being experienced.

1) The smaller bowls in blended carriers means the actual clear vision area is reduced, I feel I am constantly moving my head around to see, much more than before

2) The nausea is real. You were correct when you explained the relative motion I see. The inner part is as before, albeit over a smaller area, but the outside blur is racing everywhere, particularly noticeable when walking and continually moving my head to scan the ground etc.

3) Walking into the sun the outer swirling was particularly noticeable as it seemed much brighter than the clear inner part. As a consequence I was continually noticing it. Why did it appear so bright.

I notice when I look in the mirror when the room is brightly lit there is a bright ring of light around my eyes, is this due to the plus blended carrier?

I would be interested to hear how long you think it will take me to get used to them. Today I plan to get travel sick pills as you suggest, especially as I want to wear these new spex when I meet old friends at lunchtime. First time they are seeing me in full -28D glasses.

Thank you again.

Brian

Cactus Jack 10 Aug 2014, 21:13

brianwebber,

I forgot to mention that the difference in apparent motion you see and the motion you feel with your semicircular canals in your ears, is what generally causes motion sickness. If you feel any nausea, consider trying some motion sickness pills for a few days. Some years ago I had muscle surgery for high esophoria and they had a can ready for me to throw up when I came out of the anesthetic. Fortunately, I had no problem, but the nurses said that my esophoria was not all that significant, People with esotropia who have been cross eyed all their lives or most of it are most likely to experience motion sickness with the changes in their vision.

BTW, the muscle surgery was unsuccessful as I had been warned, and the esophoria came back worse than it was. The doctors are trying to convince me to have more surgery, again with no guarantees. I am not really interested. High prism glasses have their problems, but at least you can take them off and use an eye patch if all else fails.

Cactus Jack 10 Aug 2014, 21:03

brianwebber,

What you are experiencing with the plus carrier is some of the phenomena experience by wearers of High Plus lenses. High Plus lenses are in effect Magnifiying glasses. They magnify things and if you look through them images will be blurry and if you move your head, objects you see through them will appear to move much faster than the minified images you see through the bowls of your myodiscs. In fact, the minimized images may seem to mover slower than normal because minus lenses tend to act like wide angle lenses on a camera and myodiscs tend to act like fish eye camera lenses,

It is likely that your brain will get used to dealing with the changed images as it learns to process what you see to something more "normal". Remember, people who are naturally very myopic or hyperopic have years for their brain to interpret the images delivered by their eyes. You situation is not unlike people who had cataract surgery many years ago before the development of IOLs. However, in their case, cataract surgery was so risky that it was delayed until the person was nearly blind and could only make out light and dark. In that case the surgery was better than blindness and recovery from the surgery itself took months, That gave them more time to get used to their new vision and many did surprisingly well even with all the associated peripheral vision disadvantages. At least with high minus glasses you have peripheral vision and some distortion is better than having no peripheral vision.

Hopefully, you will get used to both types of myodiscs and your brain will ignore the distortion. I think when your brain learns to deal with the two types, you will be very surprised at how quickly it loads the new program when you change glasses. Please let us know your experiences. I learn from them and other members who want to consider surgery or do GOC can learn from them. As always, the best surprise is no surprise when it comes to vision and you are pioneering with all those associated risks and surprises. Tank you for sharing

brianwebber 10 Aug 2014, 19:43

Dave ,

That describes exactly how it looks to me. The bowls have a definitely visible cut in and then around them is a magnified image of my skin through the plus carrier. The swirly vision through the plus blended part seems brighter than the rest and is very distracting.

Brian

Dave 10 Aug 2014, 16:13

Brian -- Yes, Cactus Jack knows his stuff!

I had a pair of -25 myos with plus carriers and never liked them. Looking at myself head-on, the magnification of the plus carriers contrasted so much with the negative bowls that I rarely wore them. I had also made the mistake of getting a frame that was larger than normal which exacerbated the problem. In addition, I was always seeing things coming at me from the carriers. Specs4ever described a similar phenomenon but with a much stronger prescription. I think optical labs prefer to use the plus carriers because they're easier to fabricate and do provide a thinner edge which is what a lot of people would want.

Glad you're going to meet your friends tomorrow. If they're already used to you in, I presume, -14 high-index glasses they might not take any serious note of the new lenses. Most people can't tell the difference between strong lenses unless the edges have become exceptionally thick.

Let us know how it goes!

brianwebber 10 Aug 2014, 13:07

Dear Cactus Jack,

Thank you for your excellent explanation about the consequences of minification. My optician friend has tried many times but gets far too technical, but you have explained to me very clearly. I guess if I fully corrected my vision with contact lenses then I would see "normal" size? However I don't want to wear full cls correction as I find the minus cls uncomfortable and of course why have surgery to get this vision and not wear the fabulous glasses I now have.

Before he went away yesterday for a couple of days a new pair of distance glasses arrived at his optician's office. They are small bowl blended myos in a plus carrier. They look unbelievably like normal glasses and I have been wearing them all of today. I think the combination of the smaller bowls and the blended part in the plus carrier appears to be very obvious to me, there is lots of blurriness around the central clear vision and a swirly feeling as I move around, do you know why this is so?

Tomorrow old friends from my home town who knew me before surgery are coming up to London for the day. Usually I meet them in the 50/50 cls/high index glasses and no-one has ever asked about my new vision. A couple of days ago I was chatting to a man on lenschat and he thought I should bite the bullet and meet old friends in a full prescription set of glasses and not shy away from doing so. Tomorrow I am going to do just that and meet them in the new blended myos, I'll cross any bridges if they comment tomorrow.

Thank you again for your comments.

Brian

Cactus Jack 10 Aug 2014, 11:55

brianwebber,

The vast majority of minification in high minus glasses is caused by the vertex distance of the glasses. CLs have 0 vertex distance so their contribution to the total minimization is much less. Even contacts minimize of or enlarge images slightly, depending on their polarity. That is caused by the very small distance between the front surface of the cornea and the effective center of the eye's lens system.

It helps to think of the retina as the image sensor of a digital camera. It is amazing how similar they are. The retina has a huge number of Rods and Cones (over 100 million) to sense light color and intensity, depending on the specialty of the Rod or Cone. The information from the Rods and Cones is compressed and transmitted by about 1 million nerve fibers to the visual cortex, where your brain interpret the datas and creates the image that you "see".

Think of the data that arrives at the visual cortex, as pixels. As the individual elements of the optical image get smaller, they cover fewer and fewer "pixels" and at some point while they may still be detected by a Rod or Cone, the data becomes lost in the compression process, never to be recovered and Visual Acuity suffers.

brianwebber 10 Aug 2014, 05:18

specs4ever

I am impressed that you drive with your -40D glasses. My confidence is not enough to drive in the -28D glasses. However I do drive when I split the Rx 50/50 with contacts and high index glasses. Somehow the minification in the split is far less. Even so I do not drive in London, only out in the country areas.

Do you GOC fulltime?

Brian

brianwebber 10 Aug 2014, 04:56

Hi lentifan,

I used GOC for several years before the surgery. My optician became a good friend and supplied a variety of combinations, even plus glasses with minus contacts. I didn't find the plus glasses easy to wear.

As time progressed, and the addiction took hold , the powers crept up. In the end I was using glasses very close to my new Rx.

Until retirement I worked and lived away from London, all of my free time though was spent in the city. At home I wore the GOC glasses indoors as it was a small town and I couldn't explain the sudden change in Rx . Also there was an element of being ashamed of my actions, feeling a fraud, so I was a closet myos wearer.

However in London I wore GOC for many hours a day, both in and outside. When in the strongest combo I needed to remove the cls after four/five hours as they were not very comfortable. Most of the time though I was in the house when in GOC. A big excitement for me was feeling helpless without the myos and needing the thick lenses to see.

Brian

brianwebber 09 Aug 2014, 04:53

I had no idea Greg until recently that so many people had the same fascination for myopic lenses. If you wish please drop me a line and we can chat more.

Brian

GreginColo 08 Aug 2014, 23:06

Thanks Brian for sharing so many details of how you see things with your revised vision. This is all especially interesting for those of us with myopic fascinations. Thanks again, Greg.

brianwebber 08 Aug 2014, 17:32

Unbelievably good weather for the UK so we extended our walking holiday by a few days. I still enjoy walking but now stick to decent paths. Trying to negotiate rough bumpy paths is now difficult as I have to look down the whole time. Planning a route I use 1:50000 hiking maps the detail is a problem, I use a magnifier along with my reading glasses. Good light is essential or else I cannot see to read.

I feel I lead a normal lifestyle since surgery. I accepted that I would have to stop driving once needing -28D glasses. I have driven slowly on country roads but really don't feel happy about it.

One problem is the minification. Clarity of my vision is excellent but sometimes images are too small to be useful. For example I can see there are road signs but rarely able to read them. I struggle to read the numbers on the front of the London buses and always have to ask where they are going.

Judging distances is now fun. I see a small world but everything looks far away. It is not unusual for me to miss a hand when offered for a handshake, I used to practice grabbing door handles and not always successfully.

It is true the best vision is through the centre of the lenses. The small image fills the myos bowl with the peripheral vision squashed into the outer edge of the lens. I am aware of these objects but have to turn my head to look directly at them to see properly.

My email address is briangwebber@hotmail.com

I look forward to hearing from you Mike and anyone else who is interested in this topic.

Brian

specs4ever 04 Aug 2014, 09:00

I have found that peripheral vision with the much stronger lenses isn't a problem for me. Yes, you do have to move your head a bit more, but actually the minification of the higher minus powers actually brings things that are off to the sides into view through the edges of the myodisc circle. A very high myope rapidly becomes very adept at turning their head when they want a clear view of something because the best vision is right through the optical center, But the minifiation allows a much wider range of peripheral vision than one would expect.

I love the higher powers of minus lenses. But being a high minus 100% of the time would have likely restricted me as to what I could do and would have reduced my income. So instead of doing anything about my desires I have just continued to do GOC whenever possible. I have thought about what I could do when my cataracts are bad enough for removal and replacement, and I know there is a possibility o ending up with a -10D prescription if I want it. I do know of somone who ended up with a -9D prescription, so it is possible. I might try for that, but I might not, because my lifespan is rapidly heading towards the best before expiry date.

I have since sold the glasses, but I had a pair of biconcave 1.8 index glass lensed biconcave myodiscs. The front curve was pretty deeply concaved in and the back curve of the carrier was a fairly high plus. These were the most dangereous glasses I have ever worn. When walking around a person walking up from behind you would have a ghost image transmitted into the lens and the resulting image would make it seem as if the person was right in front of you. The same thing would happen when driving - but only on the left side of you and it would seem like the car was crossing right in front of you. These glasses were a -46D though and the chance of this happening with a lower power is minimal.

Mike 03 Aug 2014, 16:32

Dave and Specs4ever, great info thank you

Specs4ever 03 Aug 2014, 13:22

Over the years I have done a lot of experimenting with GOC. I agree that having the luxury of a friendly optometrist would be a fantasy come true and would likely save a bundle of cash, but I have never had the guts to talk to one so all I have doen has been by trial and error. But even so I have managed to wear GOC for many hours.

My suggestion is to start with no more than -15D glasses. It will take a while before you feel really comfortable wearing them but you will get used to them fairly fast. Once -15D becomes as normal as your regular glasses then you can increase the power of your glasses by about -5D at a time. You will know when it is time to try a stronger prescription.

As far as driving goes I have driven thousands of miles wearing glasses that were a -17.50D prescription. I have driven a few less wearing -30D glasses, but still quite a lot - and this was as a long haul driver. Over the past few years I have been wearing -40D glasses and I have driven a lot of miles in a car, as well as ridden a motorcycle in areas that range from open freeway to Los Angeles rush hour traffic.

For some strange reason you might have a contact lens prescription that feels great, and you will buy 3 or 4 pairs of glasses to work with them. One or 2 pairs of glasses will work really well, but one pair of glasses might just not work at all - maybe in an emergency. but not good enough for day to day use. Don't ask me why, but it just seems to work out that way.

Good luck with your quest.

Dave 03 Aug 2014, 12:15

Mike -- I need to clarify one point with you so you're clear on one thing: A contact lens prescription starting around -5/-6 will generally result in a glasses prescription that is slightly stronger. So if a contact lens prescription is for -15, you'd probably need a glasses prescription of around -17 or so. My contacts for GOC are +20 which means that I require a minus prescription of somewhere between -23 and -25. With -23 I have good vision which I estimate to be around 20/30, perhaps 20/40 at night. I can read comfortably. With my -25 glasses, my vision is nearly 20/20 but I have to pull them away from my eyes just a bit when I want to read. Bifocals are not possible with lenses at this strength.

The correct vertex distance between the backs of your glasses lenses and the cornea of your eye is tricky to achieve in the highest prescriptions as much depends on how the eyeglasses fit on one's face. Generally, the closer the fit the better since every millimeter can count for a lot in terms of best visual acuity. Every so often I've seen an extreme myope wearing a strap to ensure that his eyeglasses remain in the correct position.

I could drive with my glasses but don't since my peripheral vision is limited and my sense of distance isn't quite right because of minimification. I'm sure if I did GOC full-time I would adjust, but I really don't want to take a chance of misjudging something and having an accident only because I'm indulging my secret pleasure.

You might want to come clean with a friendly doctor who can do an accurate GOC for you. It's a lot less expensive than trying on your own.

Oh, and my experience is that unaided visual acuity over -10

is all pretty much the same: poor. The advantage, of course, in having -10 as opposed to -20 is that it's far easier to correct.

Keep us posted.

Mike 02 Aug 2014, 16:30

Dave, thanks for the feedback. How was reading for you? Did you drive with minus 25, do you think you could see 20/40 or better. Please dont feel obligated to answer. if i can get enough people with experience to answer then I could take an average to see what me chances are.

Secondly,

Does anyone here have an image accurately showing what someone whit minus 15 and 20 see without glasses trying to decided if I would need more than minus 15 to be happy. Is there a drastic difference I remember reading something that over a certain level its all the same

Dave 02 Aug 2014, 14:36

Mike -- I agree that you should give a GOC combination a comprehensive trial before you do anything permanent. Brian Webber isn't wrong in stressing some of the visual downsides he now experiences.

I've done GOC approximating a -25 prescription and can manage just fine. I can even get around places without correction so long as I'm familiar with the neighborhood, and so long as it's daylight. Nighttime is an entirely different matter. The same can be said for the sensation of near blindness when I've taken off my glasses in a dark room such as a bar.

That said, a high-minus life is a very different experience and takes some getting used to. Minimification is something that can't be avoided (unless you wear contacts); one's visual field is definitely reduced (especially since high-minus glasses generally are done in small frames or in a myodisc format; descending stairs is tricky since you must look straight down to see the stairs; glasses must be perfectly positioned at all times for even the slightest movement can throw one's visual acuity off; night vision or even indoor vision generally is less good etc.

People who are natural high myopes have generally had many years to acclimate themselves to these issues. Nevertheless, some high myopes I know experience the same problems when they go from contact lens wear to glasses. In short, they see less well.

Keep us posted!

Mike 02 Aug 2014, 08:14

Likelenses, thank you for the explanation I will be trying goc at with a combo to simulate minus 15 if all goes well I will move forward. Worst case scenario I see is if I can't be refracted to at lease 20/40 I will have them removed.

Thanks again

Likelenses 02 Aug 2014, 03:05

Mike

The reason that you may have less than 20/40 vision after surgery is that with high myopia you will also have extreme minification of all objects,both near,and far. Your brain may not be able to interpret this minification.Many people begin to have less than 20/30 vision when their Rx reaches minus 10. Even if you only have one eye done,and this occurs,you will have a huge problem with the visual acuity difference between eyes.

The reason you may need to go into bioconcave lenses is that at high minus prescriptions often plastic,and especially polycarbonate lenses give diminished acuity,Glass lenses would give the best acuity,but in the U.S. they are difficult to obtain due to safety concerns regarding shattering.

GreginColo 01 Aug 2014, 11:58

Brian, I concur with Mike's interest to know and learn more, especially to the questions Mike posed. Thanks in advance for whatever more you are willing or able to share with us. Regards Greg

GreginColo 01 Aug 2014, 11:58

Brian, I concur with Mike's interest to know and learn more, especially to the questions Mike posed. Thanks in advance for whatever more you are willing or able to share with us. Regards Greg

lentifan 01 Aug 2014, 11:47

To brianwebber

Brian

I think I may speak for some others here when I say that we would be very interested in anything you care to tell us about how you have adapted to wearing -28 myodiscs. The sort of topics we would be interested in are, for example, what difference it has made to your lifestyle, are there things you now can't do or have particular difficulty with?

You said, I think, that you had practised with GOC before your surgery but was that at -28 or a lower RX. If it was not at -28, how long did it take you to feel your new vision had become 'normal', etc. With hindsight now, if you could choose your ideal Rx, would it be the same or something different?

You say you have separate reading glasses; have you considered or tried 'monovision' - ie glasses with one lens for distance and one lens for reading? I have heard of some natural myopes using this successfully.

We are interested in anything you can tell us.

Mike 01 Aug 2014, 11:34

Nj, thank you for the response and from my research yes people can have perfect vision with a high minus rx. However I also respect likelenses opinion when he made those statements it raised a red flag and made me wonder if I missed something in my research.

Thank you for reassuring me its possible to have very good vision through high minus lenses. I will however do a goc combo to really get the full effect of my decisions before going under the knife.

NJ 01 Aug 2014, 09:55

Mike, GOC with properly fitted glasses and contacts will give you a very close approximation of what your vision will be like after surgery. Assuming nothing goes wrong during the surgery you should be correctable to 20/30 or better. If you don't need bifocals now that you likely won't need an add after surgery. Generally people do just fine with high minus glasses. High plus glasses can be a little more challenging but most manage with them as well.

I would strongly suggest you do GOC for an extended period of time before having the surgery. It's especially important that you don't just pop out your CLs whenever you feel like it or might need the better vision. You really need to get a sense for how different life can be when you need glasses so badly, not just when you desire to need them. Despite doing GOC for a very long time, I was surprised how big a change it was going from a default of decent vision to one of very poor vision. It is limiting and it's important to understand that before you do anything drastic.

Mike 01 Aug 2014, 08:45

Another thing someone mentioned previously that I should try goc. With a well setup goc combination could I see if any of these side effects happen. I am willing to risk nightvision and the need for adds for reading but the lack of 20/40 vision would be a deal breaker thats again why I would do only one eye and when its completely healed and working no my needs then do the second eye.

Simply put is it only something I would see after surgery or can goc simulate if those would be issues for me. I do know a couple people wearing above -16 and have no problems reading no add needed, driving anytime day or night with glasses or contacts one lady wears high minus glasses all the time the other wears 50-50 contacts and glasses

Mike 01 Aug 2014, 08:26

Hi guys sorry about the delay. Am I the only one no being able to access this site for the last 2 days.

Likelenses, very valid responses and question. Those points do raise a concern. In my state I you only need 20/40 in one eye to pass and this is definately a concern. And regarding biconcave lenses my wife is a cheapskate anyway I would tell her my rx went way since my last exam and thinner lenses cost (make up a very high number) and she would have no problems. She doesnt understand what all the numbers mean so her figuring out what I cooked up is most likely not gonna happen. Only concern with her is being gone for so long with no justifiable explanation.

Question for you Likelenses, you seem to have advanced knowledge on this topic. You state theres a good chance I will have a number of vision issues stemming from this procedure my question is would these issues bad night vision, trouble reading and potentially no being correctable to better than 20/40 something that anyone with that level refractive error may experience or do you see that as side effects of the procedure I wish to have. Please elaborate if you dont mind because those are concerns not to be taken lightly.

Brianweber leave your email and we can talk

brianwebber 30 Jul 2014, 02:16

Mike,

You said this earlier

"they are my eyes I was born with this desire and this is ultimately what I need to do "

This is totally comprehensible for you and me, the driving force behind it all is very strong. Our brains and vision don't match up until surgery has been done. You will achieve your goal soon.

Speak soon,

Brian

Likelenses 30 Jul 2014, 02:05

Mike

At minus 15 there is a good chance that your corrected vision could be less than 20/40 which would prohibit you from driving in most states.

You also will most likely have poor night vision,and will need a bifocal add to do the type of work that you described.

You said that with the modern lense options that you could choose thinner lenses.At minus 15 you may wind up with the best corrected vision only with biconcave lenses.How would your wife feel about that,and what would your coworkerS say?

brianwebber 30 Jul 2014, 01:59

Mike, I truly understand how you feel. Rest assured surgically produced and natural myopia present themselves in exactly the same way. You will live in a complete blur without glasses. I imagine with -15D vision you will be totally dependent on your glasses, maybe around your home you will be able to fumble around, outside not possible.

Have you thought of the type of lenses you wish to wear? I am unsure if myodiscs will be available at the desired Rx. Will you use low index lenses to get the maximum edge thickness, lots of considerations, it is an exciting time for you. Are you wanting people to notice your glasses or is it the dependency feeling you crave for?

I am away for a few days. When I get back I'll give you my email address and then we can chat in detail if you wish.

Brian

Mike 29 Jul 2014, 18:49

I want my first experience to be with true (surgically induced myopia) thats just how I need it to be I need it to seem as natural as possible

Mike 29 Jul 2014, 18:46

I have not tried any goc as I feel I would be a fraud no offense to others that do.

brianwebber 29 Jul 2014, 17:34

Mike,

You mentioned being satisfied for the short term. I have found this condition addictive. Surgery seemed the best solution for me. Even now I am thinking of even higher, I know it's crazy for an older guy but that's how I feel. Keep it all under control would be my advice.

I just about get acceptable corrected vision, not perfect as I mentioned before but I do most things I want. The feeling of vulnerability I experienced using contacts before surgery was very exciting. Now I feel differently. I am paranoid and carrying a spare pair of distance glasses. I wear a metal tube on a chain around my neck with a small pair of glasses in it. If I lost my glasses when out I would be totally useless. Even with your -15D you will be severely challenged without glasses. Have you tried plus contacts and -15D glasses to see what it is like?

brianwebber 29 Jul 2014, 17:18

Mike,

It's a family affair. My optician friend and younger surgeon brother do all my optical needs. I am not sure what a different doctor would say. I have a lens replacement and also an implant attached to the iris. I cant see anything but without glasses that's not difficult!!

Mike 29 Jul 2014, 16:29

Brian,

I am only shooting for roughly half of your current rx so I hope reading would not be an issue. I currently wear -6 in both eyes without any cyl. And see and read very well and I also believe I have room to tolerate another 2 to 3d of minus power as I can easily blur out my vision like I could before I started wearing minus 6. When I first was prescribed glasses the rx was 4.75 sph 1.25 cyl at 80 degress it worked ok but I decided to get rid of the cyl part and add the other 1.25 to the sph. This seems to work well as I can read fine unless im in a very dim lighting situation thats the only time I have trouble. When I went for the exam that ended up being the 4.75 rx I could completely blur my vision by relaxing my eyes after wearing that rx I could not read well and could not blur my vision, now after 5 yrs I can read very well and blur my vision to the level I could before getting glasses. I have also come to find I have trouble seeing road signs and smaller print at a distance. I do not believe this to be true myopia but if I can pull off a stronger rx I may satisfy my urge for the short term.

Question for you, have you gone to an eye dr for a refraction with the implants. If so how did that go did they question you about the implants

brianwebber 29 Jul 2014, 15:02

I know I am among friends now as without prompting some asked if I was satisfied. Yes and no.

Yes, I am satisfied that there will be no more surgery. I was totally scared by the prospect of surgery on my eyes, I need not have been, but no more.

No, I am thinking about some experimenting with plus contacts again. When I retired and had the surgery I also moved to a new location to be with my optician friend. But when I revisit my home town I split the Rx 50/50 contacts and glasses. With high index lenses I seem to get away with my new vision undetected by old friends/family. But at my new home I am known as a high myope so a bit more power could be fun. For everyday life my present Rx is okay but not perfect. Close up work is tricky at times. With no natural accommodation I need to have a substantial add and with myos this means separate reading glasses. A pain at times. However they make lenses in the -30Ds and so I have room for some experimenting. We'll see.

Mike I would never dissuade you. But think carefully about how you will cope with work and a new substantial Rx. I appreciate -28D is higher but there is no way I could have functioned in my job and have this new Rx. What will your wife say when she returns finding you in powerful glasses?

Brian

specs4ever 29 Jul 2014, 10:19

Brian, you have acheived what I always wished I could. I hope that it has allowed you to reach a point where you are now satisfied with your life.

LEO in PERTH 29 Jul 2014, 09:36

brianwebber

Your story is my dream.

Thanks for sharing ,I believe it will happen.

Take care.

Mike 29 Jul 2014, 08:46

Brian,

Thanks for sharing your story. It gives me more hope that i will find a way to achive my goal as well. The more people I hear about having similar procedures the more encouraged I get. I guess it would help if my brother in law was an ophthamologist. That would be like hitting the lottery for me and im sure I speak for some others here too. Brian at minus 28 do you still crave more minus power or were you satisfied at this point?

brianwebber 29 Jul 2014, 03:45

Val, on vision-and-spex.com, suggested I visit this site. He was so right, you have a very active discussion here about addiction leading to elective surgery.

I never reached more than -3.50D for my real glasses. Got contacts for the first time when I finished uni. Then discovered wearing both glasses on top of my contacts gave me an exciting blur. Jumping 25 years and a failed marriage, no children, I really got into using the blurred glasses by buying a couple of strong pairs online. Then I

met and got involved with an optician who later prescribed me plus contacts and strong minus glasses which gave me clear vision. After several years the addiction was feeding on me and all I wanted was stronger and thicker lenses until I reached the point where I was using the strongest plus contacts I could buy.

The optician's younger brother, a cataract surgeon in India, was persuaded to do a lensectomy and implants to make me a "real" extreme myope. I have used -28D myos for three years now since I retired.

Mike I fully appreciate how strong your desire is and that rational folk cannot understand what drives us to do what we do.

Brian

Mike 28 Jul 2014, 15:37

actus Jack,

I want to start this by saying I completely and utterly appreciate you taking interest in my posts. You have already thoroughly educated me on the human eye and visual system, you just didn't know it, I rarely posted here out of my own shame and fear of my situation.

I am working hard to over come my fears and by posting and talking about it I think is a step in the right direction.

That being said I am trying to find a fix for my desire to become a high myope as I stated in other posts I have tried all sorts of professional psychological treatments none of which has had any effect of ridding me of this desire. I have come to embrace what I have been given and wish to proceed in finding a surgeon to preform the procedure I need to make me right again.

I have already evaluated the risks involved and I am completely willing to assime those risks in the event of my finding someone to preform the procedure.

I would be more than happy to answer any questions you feel unfit for an open forum I will post an email shortly.

Thank you again you're knowledge is so greatly appreciated

Mike

Cactus Jack 28 Jul 2014, 10:27

Mike,

I suspect you have a bit of myopia, but probably not a lot. There are two kinds of myopia, Axial or True Myopia and Pseudo or False Myopia. They have two different causes and they can both be present and if you have both kinds of Myopia, they add up to your overall prescription. The fix for either type or both is some form of correction such as glasses, contacts, IOLs, ICLs or surgery.

Two more questions, the simple test, and a suggestion.

1. May I ask if you had any Physics in High School or College?

2. Would you like to know more about how the optics of the eyes work?

Here is the test with some explanation of the hows and whys of the test.

This test uses the optical principles discovered by Sir Isaac Newton (of gravity fame) about 300 years ago. The math involved is just multiplication and division.

Myopia, not complicated by Astigmatism, is like wearing built in PLUS reading glasses all the time. The MINUS correction just cancels or neutralizes the excess PLUS in your eye's optical system. The effect of the excess PLUS is that distant objects will be out of focus and blurry. The purpose of the test is to measure the distance where the blur starts and use that number to get a pretty good estimate of how much myopia you have.

Sir Isaac's formula for calculating lens power is pretty simple: Lens Power in diopters = 1 meter (100 cm, 1000 mm or 30.37 inches) divided by focal distance. If your myopia is small, say -0.50 to correct +0.50 error would be 1 meter / 0.50 = 2 meters which is inconvenient to measure. However, we can use optics to make the task easier.

1. Get a pair of inexpensive +1.50 reading glasses at Wal-Mart or other place that sells them. They will help bring your refractive error into a range where the distances are easier to measure. If you have no Myopia, the focal distance would be about 66 cm or 26 inches. If you have some Myopia, the distance will be LESS or if you have Hyperopia, the distance will be GREATER.

2. You will also need a tape measure and a bork or newspaper with typical size small text.

3. Just after you wake up, with only the +1.50 glass on, hold the text where it is sharp and clear, then gradually move it away from your eyes until the text just gets to be a little bit fuzzy at the edges of the letters. Don't try to focus.

4. Measure the distance and write it down.

5. Do step 3 and 4, three times for each eye individually and write them down.

6. Average the three numbers for each eye individually.

7 Tell me the numbers.

If you want, you can do the calculation for the EFFECTIVE lens power of the +1.50 glasses using the formula above. The difference between the EFFECTIVE lens power of the +1.50 glasses and the ACTUAL power of the glasses is your approximate prescription for each eye. If you are MYOPIC, the focus distance will be LESS than 66 cm or 26 inches.

This test won't work with your -6.00 glasses and the +1.50 reading glasses because the +1.50 glasses are not strong enough to get the focus distance into an easily measurable range.

Let me know if you don't understand any of this.

I would like to invite you to contact me privately at cactusjack1928@hotmail.com. I would like to ask some questions that you might prefer to answer there rather than publicly here.

Mike 28 Jul 2014, 02:33

Cactus Jack,

When I wake up and look around its blurry. The blur is not quite as much as after wearing most of the day. But im pretty sure I can push out and clear things up, how much i dont know because its disappointing to know im not truly myopic I just avoid trying to allow my eyes to see clearly without glasses.

I am self employed as a contractor. I spend 1 to 2 hours a day on the computer (this being constant work no breaks other than restroom etc). I am on and off of it periodically throughout the day was well. No heavy reading just occasional blueprints, material documentation, invoices, bids etc. (I mean all that as a case by case basis some days I will not read anything all day other than texts.

Lastly regarding the simple eye test. Im not completely honest with myself about how much if any myopia I truly have so im not sure I would be completely accurate and honest with you about it (no offense). I just try to forget the fact that im not truly myopic it just depresses me knowing im not.

I would be willing to try anyway.

Cactus Jack 27 Jul 2014, 23:43

Mike,

I have another few questions.

1. How is your distance vision when you first wake up in the morning, before putting on your glasses?

2. What is your occupation>

3. Does it involve a lot of reading or work with a computer?

I may offer a simple test to estimate your current uncorrected prescription. Would you be interested?

Mike 27 Jul 2014, 21:11

Cactus Jack,

I have no idea of my actual script if any at all.

However I do recall when I was maybe about 21 and I went for a pre employment physical I was advised to get an exam from an eye doc and I did I remember the script being low most likely under -1.0 and I never had it filled this was at a time when I was too embarrassed about the thought of wearing glasses even though I wanted to.

Cactus Jack 27 Jul 2014, 20:02

Mike,

A couple of questions.

1. Do you have any idea of your actual prescription now.

2. Do you recall your actual prescription before you started wearing the -6.00 glasses.

Mike 27 Jul 2014, 17:24

Continued from previous.

So I can now blur my vision to the level I could before the first exam so I may try my luck again to see if I can get a bit higher (I understand that its not an accurate refraction however it is part of my thrill).

Back to the main question can I achieve what I want with any laser procedures I have no idea of my corneal thickness I dont have dry eyes and my internal pressure is normal But could this physically be done in a perfect world with out limitations? Or do I need to drop it as a potential possibility and consider an implant.

Lastly I have a window of opportunity in the next few months my wife will be gone for 2 weeks when I could dissappear to have this done. Money is no issue and obviously I would only have one eye done first and if alls well do the second eye. This is the risk im willing to take to ultimately make my quality of life better so please no negative comments they are my eyes I was born with this desire and this is ultimately what I need to do

Thank you in advance

Mike

Mike 27 Jul 2014, 17:09

Hello all,

(I will also be posting this in the induced myopia thread as well, there seems to be more activity on this topic over there lately however I feel this would be the correct thread)

For the longest time I deeply desire to be significantly myopic 12 to 15d range. I am willing to take whatever means necessary to make this happen.

I wish to have the procedure done via laser surgery so there would be no chance of reversal as in the case implants however my main questions is:

Would any for of laser procedures be possible if I found a surgeon willing to perform what I want (I am in the united states and willing to travel into mexico where I understand others have been successful in finding dr"s willing to implant lens for the same reason) (btw I would be willing to pay for assistance from other members of this site whom have already done the legwork of finding a willing surgeon)

A bit of background info:

33 yrs male

Been wearing -6d glasses since 2009

I was able to obtain the presription legitimate ly from a lenscrafter optomitrist and have not been back since I was able to convince the auto refractor I was 4.50 and final refraction of 4.75 and 1.25 cyl this script was good but I also had my frames made with 6.00 even in both eyes which worked a bit better. I did this by relaxing my eyes to blur out my vision when I first started wearing this script I could not read very well or blur my vision however after a year I could read well and blur my vision again....continued

NJ 05 Jul 2014, 11:32

Danbert, I initially approached them by simply asking for a clear lens extraction without IOL placement. They agreed without question and we set up a date. My cover story was that I had low vision in the 20/60-20/80 range and the magnification of strong plus lenses enable me to read and even drive. However, I am not able to wear contacts very comfortably anymore and so want the lens extractions.

I was asked this is passing at the clinic, but honestly I don't think they really cared.

BTW, this form of COG is actually used on occasion for low vision purposes. I found references to it in some older text books.

Danbert 04 Jul 2014, 09:28

NJ,

How did you approach them? Did you enquire through that site and simply explain that you wanted to wear strong glasses, and they were receptive?

LEO in PERTH 01 Jul 2014, 04:38

Thanks NJ !

Iám one of the others.

Like yourself, I always wanted to wear strong glasses ,since childhood.

Its really good to know IÁM NOT ALONE.

Every day of my life before GOC(decades) I've been trying to find ways to wear strong glasses, and now after GOC ,not a day passes without thinking about surgery .Would love to wear -12\13 without CL.

NJ 30 Jun 2014, 09:33

LEO, yes, like many here I like wearing strong glasses. I have since childhood.

LEO in PERTH 29 Jun 2014, 11:01

Thank you !

One more question please.

The 30yrs you were wearing GOC, was that because you wanted to wear" strong" glasses?

NJ 29 Jun 2014, 10:20

LEO, I had it done here: http://www.angeleshealth.com/ The actual hospital is in Guadalajara, Mexico.

My refracted Rx is in the +18 range but I was hyperopic before surgery. I can wear up to +20 if I adjust the frames right

LEO inPERTH 29 Jun 2014, 05:10

Where did you have the surgery, if you don"t mind telling, and what is your RX ?

NJ 27 Jun 2014, 10:02

In 30 years of doing GOC no one ever noticed my CLs. However, it certainly was a relief after having clear lens extractions to not need to CLs any more!

LEO in PERTH 31 May 2014, 03:36

Danbert

Iám using Proclear contacts.

I think only GOCers and glasses lovers notice people wearing contacts.

I doubt if most people reallyknow ,unless they want to

see if someone is wearing contacts.

Danbert 30 May 2014, 06:59

LEO in PERTH,

So she has never noticed your contacts? You must be good at hiding the packaging somewhere! What brand/make do you use? Obviously it's a very personal thing as to which is best for any given individual, but some of them have that ever so slight blue tint which makes it pretty obvious that someone is wearing lenses...

LEO in PERTH 30 May 2014, 03:10

Danbert

She knows I like wearing strong glasses, but is not aware of the GOC method .She did ask me about the thickness ,but seemed ok when I told her its because I don't pay for the lenses ,witch is true. I also said I like wearing plastic frames when Iám home, ,which I find more comfortable than the metal frames.

Danbert 29 May 2014, 13:19

Is LASEK purportedly safer than LASIK or other older methods? Finding it difficult to find any real information.

LEO in PERTH,

So you wear -8 everywhere and -17 glasses at home (and presumably your wife knows you're doing GOC) but are worried what your she might think about you wanting to wear have an actual prescription of -12?

What is your actual prescription, out of interest?

If she knows about your GOC then it seems to me like you're halfway to explaining it to her anyhow.

LEO in PERTH 29 May 2014, 07:57

Likelenses

My wife uses glasses , mainly for reading.

I don't think she minds me wearing strong glasses ,I've been wearing -8 (GOC) for a few years, as my normal glasses ,The last 3x years I've been wearing -17 (GOC)mostly at home ,but not when we have family or friends over,

When Iám ready(saved enough $) and find some one to do the surgery ,I'll should have a good reason by then ,and that's my only concern.

Likelenses 28 May 2014, 17:25

LEO in PERTH

How would your wife like it if you were in minus 12's ? Is she OO ?

LEO in PERTH 28 May 2014, 10:13

DANBERT

When Cactus Jack suggested I find an ECP to help me with GOC

I thought winning the lotto would be easier! At my first attempted I found 2x ECP willing to help me with GOC.

In my case,( and other glasses lovers) IOL surgery or lense implants , I would class as Cosmetic surgery.

The only 2x reasons I Haven't contacted anyone yet, is the cost ,and having to explain to my Better half why I want to wear -12 glasses ?

Danbert 27 May 2014, 20:58

svensont,

Haha, I'm not sure if "like" is something I would describe a surgical procedure. But by all means if an understanding surgeon could be found then I wouldn't hesitate.

Acuity (when wearing correction) isn't something I would be willing to compromise on very much. So I guess "it depends" but anything beyond more than -3.00 or so would be "good enough" for me. But -6 or more would be ideal I guess.

LEO in PERTH,

Finding someone in our country willing to perform such a procedure could be difficult, if not impossible... even if the understanding were there.

Have you had any leads, or is this just a pipe dream for you at this time (like me)?

svensont 26 May 2014, 17:23

Danbert,

What is your prescription at the moment? I'm curious as I was doing exactly the same things as you.

So now you would like to have a surgery? What prescription would you like to achieve?

LEO in PERTH 26 May 2014, 07:13

DANBERT

Better late than never! I thought I was the only person in Aus thinking that way !.

I agree, there must be someone out there who will understand.

Danbert 26 May 2014, 03:51

LEO in PERTH,

Not sure if you'll read this, but I also live in Australia. For now I don't know of any surgeons willing to do customer prescribed IOL or refractive surgery in this country, but would be happy to get in touch by email if you wanted to keep each other informed. Somewhere overseas is probably one's best bet, in reality. I don't know much about that either, though. But an answer must be out there somewhere...

4 iiii 21 May 2014, 07:10

Smithie

Can we see a picture of your new glasses, when you get back home ?

Likelenses 29 Apr 2014, 19:14

Smithie had better be careful traveling in bandito country,as his glasses may be mistaken for diamonds,and taken from him.

GreginColo 29 Apr 2014, 15:18

Update on Eyescene friends Smithie and Hans who are still traveling in South America. After spending, and enjoying, some time in Cuzco they will soon be traveling by bus further south. As you may recall, Smithie had surgery in Mexico last fall to make him extremely myopic, and is enjoying, and adjusting to, his new vision extreme, which requires mega minus correction. Continued best wishes to them for safe and fun travels.

lentifan 23 Mar 2014, 19:51

Has anyone heard from Steve Weightman who had surgery to wear high plus glasses last year? I think he said he was wintering somewhere warmer, where there was no email, and would be back in UK in March. I wonder how he is faring.

GreginColo 23 Mar 2014, 15:50

I have a recent, but indirect, update from Sid (Smithie)and Hans, who are traveling in South America (currently Peru)and enjoying their travels. Sid is becoming accustomed to his post-op vision requiring extreme myopic correction. We continue to offer them best wishes in their travels and time spent together.

cg 09 Mar 2014, 18:42

Hi again. Thanx for the answer Gregincolo.

Let us all hope to hear something from them soon

GreginColo 07 Mar 2014, 14:41

Re Hans and Sid:

I got his only second-hand several weeks ago that they are still traveling in Central America, enjoying themselves, but travel is a bit difficult for Sid with his new reduced level of vision. Sorry I don't know any more to share,,

CG 07 Mar 2014, 12:17

anyone heard anything from Hans and Sid ?

It has been silent both here and there for a long time now.

Would be nice to be wiser !!

Plussichic 04 Feb 2014, 15:56

Mr Who

Thank you for a very comprehensive answer. I had the surgeries at 5 and 6 years old so they don't mean that much to me.

I have been asked by my orthoptist if I wish to have further surgery but this idea does not sit well with me at this time

David 04 Feb 2014, 13:22

Thanks Cactus Jack. Very good information. So here's another question. I don't think I could convince my wife to get IOL surgery. Would a lasik procedure for hyperopia work to eliminate the presbyopia and would anyone do such a procedure?

Cactus Jack 04 Feb 2014, 00:14

David,

There is no surgical correction for presbyopia other than perhaps the removal of the crystalline lens, similar to cataract surgery, and replacement with a multifocal Intra Ocular Lens (IOL).

The eyes have 4 lenses in each eye which make up the eye's lens system, From front to back they are the Cornea, Aqueous Humor, Crystalline lens, and Vitreous Humor. All are essentially fixed focus except the Crystalline lens which, with the ciliary muscles, provide the auto-focus function of the eyes. The ciliary muscles can increase the plus power of the crystalline lens to enable you to focus close.

Presbyopia is the gradual stiffening of the crystalline lenses with age to where the ciliary muscles can no longer change their power to focus close. When that happens, reading glasses, bifocals, trifocals or progressive glasses are required. An alternate is multi-focal contacts or as stated above, surgical replacement of the crystalline lenses with multi-focal IOLs.

Many years ago, such a surgery was unheard of because of the extreme risk of cataract surgery. However, today, cataract surgery with IOLs is considered one of the safest surgeries. The actual operation is typically done on an outpatient basis and takes about 10-15 minutes to remove the crystalline lens and replace it with an IOL for each eye.

Within the past year of so, crystalline lens replacement has become an elective surgery in some areas, to avoid the need for bifocals or multifocal external lenses. It has the added advantage of eliminating the need for future cataract surgery. However, it is still a surgery and there is some risk, albeit very low. Normally, there is a wait of at least 2 weeks between surgeries to be sure there are no complications.

I had cataract surgery with single vision IOLs in both eyes about 12 years ago. I was scared to death for the first surgery, but it was the nearest thing to a non-event that I have experienced and the results were amazing. I could hardly wait for the two weeks until the surgeon would do the other eye.

Another option I did not mention above is mono-vision where one eye is corrected for distance and the other is corrected for intermediate distances. You still need bi or trifocals for sharp vision for all distances, but most people can function handily without glasses for non-precision work.

David 03 Feb 2014, 18:44

I hope someone can answer this. My wifes wears progressives. -1 +2 or thereabouts for both eyes. Can lasik or some other refractrive surgery correct the presbyopia only? If so, would it make the nearsightedness increase? Thanks for any insight you can provide.

David

LEO in PERTH 30 Jan 2014, 07:34

Anybody in Australia had lens implants (IOL) of there own choice ?

Chris 29 Jan 2014, 15:11

Hey Aristos

I emailed you but you haven't responded.

Aristos 26 Jan 2014, 16:31

Hi Chris,

I saw that your most recent comment was posted on January 22nd. So I hope you will read this and get back to me to:

aristos70@hotmail.com

I am sure you will enjoy the conversation with me and vice versa. Just send me a message and I tell you why.

Thanks in advance

Ciao

Aristos

Mr Who 26 Jan 2014, 11:33

It would sound to me that after three surgeries already you have probably had more experience than most! Assuming that the previous surgeries were for strabismus (double vision)?

I had surgery for strabismus a couple of years ago after I got up to a combined 26 dioptres of prism and after many years of my optician warning me that it was getting more and more difficult to make up glasses for me. Contributing factors to deciding to go for the surgery were the colour aberration issues with the lenses, and in my case some balance and coordination problems attributed to wearing the prisms.

Right from the first consultation I was warned that the surgery is not a permanent fix and indeed the issues can return. I don't understand why in my case and potentially yours the eye muscles just continue to turn further and further inwards but it seems that this is the case with a lot of people that have strabismus.

When I had the surgery, the surgeon over corrected me by 5 dioptres because it's apparently common for people to end up slightly under corrected. I recently had an eye test and was prescribed a further 4 dioptres. In an attempt to delay the need for further surgery I am currently waiting for a session of vision therapy.

I don't understand why the eye muscles seem to almost keep growing out of alignment like they do but unfortunately they just do. I have heard of botox treatments for the eye muscles as a "lighter" alternative to surgery. There are also vision therapies that can help, as well as the obvious prism lenses. So there are certainly options.

Thinking of it purely from a mechanical point of view there has to be a physical maximum amount of prism anyone can have, but I don't know what that might be. During my surgery they operated on one eye so in my case it is obviously possible to surgically add 31 dioptres of prism in just one eye, add that to the other and surely 62 dioptres of prism would cover an awful lot of situations. Following my surgery the operated eye has full movement the same as the other and scarring is almost invisible. So personally I would not have any issues about going for further surgery if I have to, although I think I would always leave surgery as a last resort like last time. One thing I learned from last time would be to get better pain killers for the days after surgery!

This may not be the thing you want to hear but I have come to the conclusion that strabismus is something that is managed over many years rather than cured. And from the options now available it is perfectly manageable. There is no doubt that it is a hassle and indeed uncomfortable for a while after surgery. If you are worried about it cosmetically, my lenses were over a centimetre thick at the temples before I had the surgery. In my mind they were really noticeable, but after the surgery I had people asking why I'd been off work and upon explaining they hadn't noticed any difference!

As a part of making the decision to go for surgery I did find a few video blogs on You Tube from people that had undergone strabismus surgery that I found helpful. Be warned there are some videos that show the surgery itself which will make your eyes water! There is of course this site too :)

For what its worth that was my take on strabismus. Like any other condition it's something you have unfortunately been given to deal with. For me personally it's not really been an issue, aside from the inevitable eye strain and headaches, in my case it certainly hasnt stopped me having the career I want, driving cars and motorbikes and even flying lessons.

plussichic 25 Jan 2014, 08:14

Has any one had experience of corrective surgery for double vision.

I have had three surgeries already and I am being told the surgery only slows down the process and double vision can return?

I do not want surgery but my prism rx constantly keeps going up so I fear I will run out of options?

If any of you guys out there have some knowledge, I would apppreciate some feedback.

GreginColo 23 Jan 2014, 07:55

Thanks Bill for the update on the encouragement and advice graciously provided to you. Let us know how things progress for you if your decide to move forward with more research and investigation of options.

bill 23 Jan 2014, 01:15

Tino has sent a detailed reply explaining how he achieved his optical goal. I am grateful for the information and encouragement he has given to me. There was no mention of costs or money.

David 22 Jan 2014, 14:16

At first I thought Tino was out of line, but upon reflection a reasonable fee will weed out those who might just want to hassle his surgeon and then, possibly, close off that avenue for those who are serious. In the same vein, I don't blame doctors who want an upfront consulting fee to eliminate those who are just "kicking the tires". I also am not offended that some of Tino's research costs be covered. After all, he's the one who has paid to discover valuable information.

I also want to note that of the three people who have undergone refractive surgery, Tino seemed the most "normal" in his refractive desires and thus the most believable to me.

NJ 22 Jan 2014, 13:44

FWIW I was able to get several positive responses from clinics in Mexico and India, just using email and one or two phone conversations. I don't think it's that hard.

Tino 22 Jan 2014, 07:03

I think the concept of trying to recover the cost of consultation fees whilst helping an ES colleague avoid the situation where they have to reveal their hand is a very fair one. I'll read with interest how everyone gets on. All the best.

Chris 22 Jan 2014, 03:26

No I'm not kidding. To be fair he wrote several detailed emails suggesting a level of genuineness but the thing that didn't quite ring true was that he said he'd been to a number of assessments which he'd had to pay for and these doctors rejected him before he found one to agree to his request. It was the cost of these assessments that he was trying to recoup. However I would have thought that an unusual request like this would have been rejected point blank rather than making him go through a costly assessment before refusing. Maybe I'm wrong. I haven't had further communication with him as I wasn't prepared to hand over money upfront and he implied that he didn't trust me to hand over the money after I had a successful surgery. Hence a stalemate.

GreginColo 21 Jan 2014, 22:47

Chris; that sounds pretty sketchy to me. I would steer clear, if it were me, of someone requesting up-front money just to provide a name or a recommendation. That kind of goes against the spirit of this site. But that's just my opinion.

bill 21 Jan 2014, 19:29

Chris you have to be kidding.

Chris 21 Jan 2014, 16:25

I got in touch with Tino on this very topic and he wanted money to reveal the doctor who agreed to perform surgery on him. I said of course I would reimburse him a fair amount for his trouble so long as I had a successful outcome but he declined and wanted the money upfront. Maybe you'll have better luck.

bill 21 Jan 2014, 15:11

Thanks David I have sent a short email to Tino as you suggested. I hope he replies.

David 20 Jan 2014, 14:16

Bill, There was a guy posting her last fall named Tino who had refractive surgery in the U.K. He left his e-mail address, too, so you might want to see if his surgeon is still available.

Let us know what happens.

Chris 20 Jan 2014, 11:15

Aristos and Leo in Perth,

Yes I'm full time GOC, have been for 7 or 8 years. I wear -14 glasses and +11 contacts. I'm mildly myopic naturally and often I will go bare eyed to give my eyes a rest and people presume I'm just wearing contacts when this happens. I can see well enough without correction to do most things, although I do wear my correctly prescribed contacts to drive if I'm not wearing my GOC combination.

GreginColoE 19 Jan 2014, 09:04

Opps, sorry for double post!

GreginColo 19 Jan 2014, 08:57

Thanks Bill I will try and catch you sometime. Greg

GreginColo 19 Jan 2014, 08:57

Thanks Bill I will try and catch you sometime. Greg

bill 19 Jan 2014, 02:50

Greg,

I try to go on lenschat most days, usually evening UK time. A chat would be good.

bill 19 Jan 2014, 02:47

Hi Greg,

I am a fifty year old man, no immediate family and in the position to retire early if needed. With early retirement I could relocate and move to a new town as a high myope.

My real Rx is-1.0D/-1.5D with add +2.0D. After reading from Hans that Smithie had +60D extreme lens replacements I have fantasised about what that it would be like. In reality though I could not cope by myself with such an extreme degree of myopia. Realistically I would hope to be around -25D as a final Rx.

The benefit of eyescene and lenschat is that we can openly talk about our desires. In my case I tried GOC and could not stand the contact lenses. However when I chat on lenschat I would sometimes fake a higher Rx to feel a part of the "gang". Now of course I will not be able to fake a higher Rx!!

Now with added determination I will send more emails to surgeons abroad in the hope that one will answer positively.

GreginColo 18 Jan 2014, 21:09

Thanks Bill for sharfing a bit more of your personal story and desire for a higher degree of myopia. It sounds like Mexico is the place to go for such. If you don't mind me to ask, what is current Rx and do you aspire to. That would be quite the challenge to pursue such a journey on your own, but you sound quite well grounded in your approach to investigating this. I regret havibg gotten lasik to improve my myopia (was -7 or so) but probably will not go as far as to get surgical reversal. Funny thing I thought the lasic would reduce my long time interest in myopic guys but not the case, it only got stronger. I hope we can connect on Lenschat sometime,

bill 18 Jan 2014, 19:58

Greg,

I have followed both Steve's and Smithie's stories with great interest as I have exactly the same desires. I appreciate to most people they both sound ridiculous but to me I know where they are coming from. The desire is strong and at times hard to keep in check.

I too live in the UK. So far I have plucked up courage and had private consultations with three surgeons. As expected none were interested. I suspect that surgery in the UK to make me a high myope is not going to happen.

However my hope is that a surgeon in the developing world will oblige. It's a delicate balance between quality of service and actually being able to get it done at all. My two main avenues are trying to find a surgeon in either India or Mexico. Mexico, with its close proximity to the US, would be my first choice. Alas I am still searching but both countries are keen to promote medical tourism.

Unlike Smithie I could not convince my own doctor that my need was so great that I needed further help. So at present I live in hope.

In realty I am a very low myope, but confess to fantasising about my optical needs to others when it suits. Such is the nature of this fetish.

Alas I do not confide in real life to any family or friend, so if surgery was possible I would have to go it alone.

CG I missed you again tonight on lenschat

GreginColo 18 Jan 2014, 18:21

Thanks CJ, that's what I was thinking that Steve desired to wear very strong plus glasses and Smithie very strong minus, although without correction I would guess their vision is quite similar, ie totally blurry, and both are dependent upon their correction beyond what most us could begin to imagine, but hopefully fulfilling to what each wants for their personal identities regarding vision correction. It is interesting they both went to Mexico for their surgery and were able to enjoy some post surgery adventure time. Its also great that each had a very supportive brother or friend to help them acheive their super high correction goals, and be there for them during this significant change in their vision.

Cactus Jack 18 Jan 2014, 17:08

GreginColo,

Steve had his crystalline lenses and capsule removed as they used to for cataract surgery, before IOLs. He now needs very high plus glasses. I don't think his exact prescription has been mentioned, but his temporary prescription was about +26 and he was waiting on some reading glasses of about +6.00 more. I don't know if they were bifocals with that much add or single vision glasses with the absolute sphere power of around +32.

CG 18 Jan 2014, 17:03

Bill thanks for the the greetings from Hans I havent seen anyone of you in a couple of days on L-C. And i like to talk with both of you.

GreginColo 18 Jan 2014, 15:02

Thanks Bill for the update on Hans and Smithie; sounds like quite the adventure they have; reminds me of similar adventure of Adrain and Steve of about six months. I can't recall, did Steve go quite high minus or quite high plus after his surgery? It sounds like his and Smithies need for such high correction are similar in magnitude, but can't recall if same direction or not.

LEO in PERTH 18 Jan 2014, 08:54

CHRIS

Not sure if this is the where we should be discussing GOC?

You doing full time GOC?

Is that the full day?

bill 18 Jan 2014, 03:50

Greg, an update about smithie from Hans late last night on lenschat.

Hans, smithie and a couple of friends are in Acapulco, on the Mexican coast. Today, Saturday, they are all joining a bus tour which is heading south on the Pan American Highway. Hans was uncertain where their final destination would be. He talked of getting well into South America.

CG, Hans says he'll be in touch asap, sorry to have missed you last night.

Smithie is getting on well. Now that he has both sets of new glasses, distance and reading, he is making fast progress. For sure this new adventure will be a challenge for smithie with his degree of vision since surgery.

Personally I really admire the guy. Smithie has taken the drastic step to achieve his dream Rx, and now he is going to get on with his life with all it's new challenges. Many of us would like to have the courage, guts even, to have refractive surgery to give us a seriously high Rx. I know I would but I keep making excuses why I cannot do it.

Aristos 18 Jan 2014, 02:55

Hi Chris,

You wrote once:

"Chris 25 Oct 2013, 08:01

I have been doing full time GOC for the last eight years and it's nearly 20 years since I first tried it. I currently wear -14 glasses and I thoroughly enjoy the whole experience."

I would like to talk to you via e-Mail.

aristos70[at]hotmail.com

Thanks

Aristos

(Sorry for my bad English; I am from Greece)

GreginColo 15 Jan 2014, 08:22

Thanks Bill for the update; that would sure be fun to run into them on a beach somewhere!

bill 15 Jan 2014, 03:51

Greg,

Last night Hans, on lenschat, said that he and Smithie were going away for a few days and visiting a beach area somewhere in Mexico. Hans was not sure when they would return.

GreginColo 14 Jan 2014, 20:47

Hi Hans, just checking in on you and Sid. Still in Mexico? Everything ok? Regards, Greg

GreginColo 12 Jan 2014, 17:45

Thanks Biill, thru Hans, for the upodate on Smithie. Hans you sound like quite the good friend to help Smithie thru this quite significant change to his vision.

bill 12 Jan 2014, 04:58

Omitted to say the chat was on lenschat

bill 12 Jan 2014, 04:43

Last night had a good chat with Hans who is staying with smithie in Mexico.

Smithie is getting on well, he now has some reading glasses and with the help of a large magnifier and max zoom he is starting to use the internet slowly. He managed a couple of comments but is very slow.

bill 07 Jan 2014, 09:01

Yuen-Ming,

Although it is difficult to understand why someone like smithie would want to have such an extreme Rx we have to accept that we are all different and have different needs.It must be a brave decision to give up good sight to then be wearing such high minus glasses. Smithie is not alone in his choice, there have been others who have opted for very powerful lenses.

Likelenses 07 Jan 2014, 01:45

Yuen-Ming

What prescription do you wear now?

Yuen-Ming 06 Jan 2014, 23:18

I have been following Eye Scene for many years. I was an extremely high myope until I had lens implants 10 years ago. Even after the implants, I still needed minus glasses, and as I have gotten older, I now wear progressive lenses for reading.

I am still dependent on glasses, although I am not disabled without them like I was before. That said, I cannot imagine intentionally putting myself in a position to be as handicapped as I was when my vision was worse than -30 diopters.

GreginColo 04 Jan 2014, 19:59

Good luck on your travels Hans and enjoy some warm weather,and pls keep us updated on Sid's progress as he adjusts to his new extreme level of myopia. It's just part of life how different people want different things for themselves; in the Guys with Glasses thread there was just a recent post about an Asian guy who was a natural -32, and from a family of high myopia, who underwent a lens insertion, I think is the correct description, to help correct, or at least reduce, his high level of myopia. Regards, Greg.

Hans 04 Jan 2014, 16:37

Cactus Jack,

Sid is already pretty independent with his new glasses. Like you say there are all sorts of problems with that sort of extreme power. He does take things slowly I noticed before Christmas when I last saw him. At present his main concern is with close work, it's too small to be readable.

I am now in London and will fly out to Mexico tomorrow.

Do any of you chat on Lenschat.com?

Cactus Jack 02 Jan 2014, 09:53

Hans,

It will be interesting to hear what Sid thinks of the quality of his vision with the -50 glasses. High Plus and high Minus lenses have some poor optical characteristics, particularly with peripheral vision and peripheral distortion. At least, because the high plus implants do not directly affect the retina as occurs with "natural" high myopia with eyeball elongation, retinal detachment is probably not a high risk.

Hans 02 Jan 2014, 08:20

Yes Greg it is a big change for him. I leave for Central America at the weekend and will spend time with Sid as he continues to adjust. Over the years that I have known him his desire to be ultra-myopic has got stronger. His desires became so strong that he contacted his doctor early last year. After months of chats he had the surgery in November. For me and you it seems a drastic extreme change but for Sid it is just what he has wanted.

GreginColo 30 Dec 2013, 07:02

Thnaks Hans for this info; wow that is quite a large transition so hope it works out quite well for him and I am sure he appreciates your support during this time of significant visual change. Thanks, Greg

Hans 30 Dec 2013, 05:00

Greg,

Sid's original Rx was around minus 3D I believe. Sid wanted to get to the early minus 50Ds and this has been possible with surgical help. The doctor was able to use an extreme implant from Germany which was plus 60D and piggybacked this with an iris fixed plus IOL. The result has been an unusually high Rx more than found naturally. His lenses have been specially ground and each pair cost in excess of 1500 US dollars.

I plan to spend a few weeks back in Mexico with Sid after New Year where the warmer weather will be welcome.

GreginColo 29 Dec 2013, 12:33

Hans, do you know what Sid's post surgery "extereme myope" Rx is and what it was before surgery? Thanks.

Hans 28 Dec 2013, 02:46

Cactus Jack,

I have read Steve and Adrian's accounts of surgery. Steve did not want implants but wanted to wear cataract glasses.

I am a mature student and my professor had cataract surgery many years ago and did not have IOLs but corrects his vision with thick plus glasses. He manages very well but does find certain situations difficult.

It is interesting to read how some people wish to alter their vision with refractive surgery. Sid Smith, who I have known for years, is one. He is now very happy as an extreme myope, his words are that he feels "complete at last". Odd that both Steve and Sid travelled to Mexico to get surgery, I guess it is unavailable in Europe.

Cactus Jack 27 Dec 2013, 15:04

There is an interesting series of posts from Steve and Adrian, his brother, about Steve' arrangements to have his crystalline lenses and their capsules (sacks) removed by a doctor in Mexico. The type surgery was the same as Cataract surgery used to be, before the development of IOLs. Back then, Cataract surgery was very serious and potentially dangerous surgery and it required a very long convalescent period.

That type of surgery is rarely performed these days because of the advantages offered for most people by modern cataract surgery. It is typically done as an outpatient procedure and is extremely safe. Recovery is very fast. I had cataract surgery with an IOL in 2001. After the very quick surgery (less than 15 minutes) I went home with a bandage and plastic protective shield over my left eye. I was instructed to remove the bandage the next morning, let my tears wash away the antibiotic ointment in my eye (about 1 hour), remove the left lens from my glasses and go to the doctor's office.

I did all that and drove myself to the doctor's office. My formerly -4.50 left eye was now close to 20/20. The doctor pronounced the surgery a success and my big question was when can we to the right eye. Two weeks!

Unfortunately, Steve's experience is substantially different.

I believe Steve's first post was on this thread as "Steve 21 Aug 2013, 02:47".

You will have to click on the "See All Posts" at the bottom of the last 50 displayed posts.

Hans 27 Dec 2013, 10:59

123,

I have not dreamed of this but wonder what it must be like to wear such thick plus glasses. Do you wear cataract glasses?

Hans 27 Dec 2013, 10:57

Leo in Perth,

Sid appreciates your concern. I have just spoken to him and he wishes you a very happy New Year.

I have known him since we both worked in the same bank in London from 2002 to 2007. At that time he loved to experiment with using contact lenses under strong glasses. In his free time he was always trying different powers, sometimes myopic and others hyperopic.

He has decided to become surgically myopic because a really extreme powered implant was available from Germany. He now feels very happy with the result. I am a naturally high myope, late 20s, but he is now much much more.

As soom as he is able to see to read again he will use the computer. He has closed his email account with hotmail as he started to have really offensive emails and was embarrassed as his Mexican friend had to read them to him.

LEO in PERTH 27 Dec 2013, 09:10

Thank you Hans.

Much appreciated.

Herbert 26 Dec 2013, 13:35

123,

NO!!!!!!!!!!

123 26 Dec 2013, 12:55

Is there anyone who dreams to be highly farsighted and having to wear strong cataract glasses?

Hans 26 Dec 2013, 11:19

Hello Leo in Perth,

I was on holiday in Mexico last week and met Sid, "smithie".

He now has his new glasses and seems to be okay with them. He is careful when he walks around but says that he feels happy now. His lenses are very powerful, I have not seen such strong glasses before. The only way I can describe them is they are like thick frosted glass with a tiny bowl through which he sees. His eyes are almost too small to see through the lenses.

Sid is waiting for his reading glasses to arrive then hopes to resume using the internet again.

LEO in PERTH 20 Dec 2013, 08:50

anybody know how Smithie's going?

LEO in PERTH 19 Dec 2013, 08:15

How you going Smithie ?

paul 30 Nov 2013, 11:53

Re Smithie,

An email I received last week says that he has had the implants fitted and is now waiting for a set of prescription glasses to be made up.

bill 22 Nov 2013, 02:17

Any news about smithie? There seems to be no reply from his email address.

Tino 07 Nov 2013, 05:13

@Chris

email me at ginolatino70@outlook.com

smithie 06 Nov 2013, 15:40

It's great to receive so many emails from others sharing the same interests. I think I have now replied to all.

Google "optical BIID" and read articles in the eye care magazines and just about all those we meet on here , on vision-and-spex or on lenschat are included in the accounts.

Refractive surgery may be an extreme solution for many but we are ALL suffering from the same condition, optical BIID. Websites such as this allow us to communicate and help each other accept ourselves.

I don't know when I have completed this round of surgery if I will be finished, I hope so. There is a real chance I will want more, an even higher Rx. Only time will tell.

Before the Internet what on earth did fellow suffers do, they must have lived in total isolation and loneliness.

smithie 06 Nov 2013, 07:08

Chris,

You are not messed up as you call it. You could well be a fellow BIID patient and you realise your desires.

Refractive surgery gives us the opportunity to become our true selves, just as with transgender surgery. Infact my therapist has trans-sexual patients as well.

Whether one actually goes ahead with surgery or just fantasises about it really makes no difference. What is important is not to deny to ourselves our feelings and then accept ourselves as okay as we are, be it GOC, refractive surgery of whatever.

Chris 06 Nov 2013, 06:05

Hey Nick,

Neither do I! I can only explain the manifestation but I have no idea of the ultimate root cause. I have read cases of people who feel a need to be amputees and even one woman who wants doctors to sever her spinal cord to make her paraplegic and lives her whole life in a wheelchair despite being perfectly able to walk. I'm completely nonplussed by this but I assume the roots are not dissimilar to my own situation as perhaps is the desire for gender reassignment. There but for the grace of God......

One aspect of this is that I feel very strong envy for highly myopic women. This is such a frustrating problem as I've never been able to sustain a relationship with the few myopic women I have been with. Highly myopic women to me are like the sirens of Greek mythology, extremely attractive but very dangerous to get too near to. I was kind of hoping that if I could receive surgery to make me highly myopic it would put me on a par with the objects of my desire and the envy would subside. Go figure as you say in the US. I'm messed up but then show me someone who isn't at least in some small way.

smithie 05 Nov 2013, 19:29

I guess Nick some of us have a compulsion so strong to match our vision to our brain. I appreciate if you do not share that compulsion then our actions will be difficult to understand. BIID is a psychological condition which is very real to some. Refractive surgery is a solution to our feelings.

Nick 05 Nov 2013, 16:55

I still don't get it. Oh well...

smithie 05 Nov 2013, 16:13

astigmaphile, we are not nuts. We have to accept that there is a mis-match between the image we have of ourselves and reality. Refractive surgery is a drastic but effective way to close that gap.

I am beginning to feel complete after many years of not knowing what was happening to me. My desires are for ultra extreme myopia and after the implant surgeries I plan Lasik to give me the highest Rx I have always craved for. The surgeon in Mexico has recognised my need and has agreed to get me the final Rx I have always dreamed of.

astigmaphile 04 Nov 2013, 10:59

Smithie,

I understand. As my username implies, I would love to be

a high astigmat.If my friens knew, they would think that I was nuts. I have had an obsession with glasses and refractive errors since grade school. i am now 67.

smithie 04 Nov 2013, 02:25

astigmaphile,

Chris in a previous contribution expressed how I feel

" Presenting myself to the world as a high myope "completes" me and makes me feel like the person I ought to be if that makes any sense"

It makes perfect sense to me, it's what having BIID is all about.

astigmaphile 03 Nov 2013, 19:16

Smithie,

If your GP thought that you needed to see a shrink, so would mine. She got rid of her myopia with LASIK. I have similar desires that would involve a little less surgery, but it will probably never happen. Good luck to you with your new vision. I hope that you will be very happy with it.

Chris 03 Nov 2013, 17:30

Tino,

Yes I'm in England. Do you know how I might go about finding a willing surgeon?

smithie 03 Nov 2013, 17:03

A lot of progress has been made the past two weeks.

After building up the courage at Easter to visit my GP and tell him about my needs he referred me to a therapist in identity disorders.

With six months of weekly sessions a refractive surgeon in Mexico was then recommended. Alas no doctor in the UK could be found willing to increase myopia.

I thought the surgeon would try to put me off. Instead he gave me a detailed examination and then outlined the options. The next day, last Tuesday, he removed the lens from my right eye and then implanted two IOLs piggyback, one in the lens sac and one attached to the iris.

Results of the painless procedure were instant. My old -27 GOC spex are not strong enough and the -39 are too strong. As an interim measure I am using the -27 spex with an additional minus lens clipped over the right lens. It looks very strange I admit, but the second eye is being done in two and a half weeks, then new glasses can be ordered.

It took me a long time to be able to tell my GP, it was the hardest bit of the whole thing.

If you wish to chat then smithie33@hotmail.co.uk

Jerome 25 Oct 2013, 14:18

smithie, your interests certainly arouse alot of interest in me. Let us know how your doctor's appointments in Mexico proceed.

Like you I am very keen to have optical realignment to give me the Rx I have always desired.

LEO in PERTH 25 Oct 2013, 11:17

SMITHIE ,see post TINO on 23rd Sept.2013

LEO in PERTH 25 Oct 2013, 11:14

Smithie

Thanks .

I think Tino found a surgeon in the UK?

All of the best.

smithie 25 Oct 2013, 10:46

Hi LEO in PERTH

I started in my late teens experimenting with GOC. In my mid twenties, five years ago, I moved to a new area and job so decided to wear -15 spex fulltime using RGP cls. Soon I was upping my "Rx" so that with +20 cls I was wearing -27 spex fulltime and I am known affectionately as "owlie", which of course I love!

Still not satisfied I have increased my use of my strongest cls, Alden +30 RGP, these allow me to use -39 spex. Distance is fair , close up really difficult without zoom on the laptop etc. I can keep the cls in for a week at a time, usually resting my eyes one night a week.

The BIID therapist has put me in touch with a sympathetic refractive surgeon in Mexico City. The therapist hopes by chatting with this surgeon I will be put off having a permanent solution. Naturally I am not thinking that way. I am almost in Mexico, driving to Phoenix tomorrow and flying down on Sunday for the appointment next day. I live in the UK so this is my holiday of a lifetime!! If the surgeon agrees to do it I am prepared to go ahead asap.

Tino 25 Oct 2013, 10:25

Chris

If you're in England, email me at ginolatino70@outlook.com

LEO in PERTH 25 Oct 2013, 09:36

CHRIS

I feel the same as you , and would like to wear -13, 14 or 15. My concern with GOC is the same as you ,and the problems wearing contacts full time.

I got my 1st GOC rx from an optometrist who suggested I only wear contacts 4 hours a day .

I'd love to wear GOC every day ,all day , or better still ,have IOL fitted.

Chris 25 Oct 2013, 08:01

I have been doing full time GOC for the last eight years and it's nearly 20 years since I first tried it. I currently wear -14 glasses and I thoroughly enjoy the whole experience. Presenting myself to the world as a high myope "completes" me and makes me feel like the person I ought to be if that makes any sense. While I admit that it's nice on occasions to be able to remove the lenses and glasses to give my eyes a rest or perform certain tasks it frustrates me that I can never recreate the permanence. It is the utter dependence on glasses that I crave and need.

I'd be very willing to spend a lot of money if I could find a surgeon who would insert IOL's to give me -14 vision with complete discretion. Phakic lens implants are the only way I would contemplate this as it's reversible should anything go wrong or in the highly unlikely event I change my mind. Aside from the obvious cost of cls I do have a constant low level fear of being "discovered". I'm not sure how I would explain my GOC to a doctor if I had an accident and ended up in hospital. Since embarking down the GOC road there really isn't any turning back. Everyone knows me as a highly myopic guy. I have mild myopia anyway so I've been a glasses wearer for a long time but over the years I've gradually increased the prescription and to my knowledge at least no one suspects anything. I suppose it's so off most people's radar anyway that no one would suspect in their wildest dreams that anyone would want to do such a thing.

So if anyone knows a way in towards achieving my ambition of full time high myopia I would like to hear from you.

LEO in PERTH 25 Oct 2013, 05:16

JACKSON + SMITHIE

Have you both been doing full time GOC ?

If yes , for how long and how many hours a day ?

How strong are your GOC glasses ?

Thank you.

Jackson 24 Oct 2013, 22:49

smithie, you really enjoy your interest. What will you be able to see with -53 glasses? Your -39 glasses must be fun though.

I have never heard of BIID. When did you realise that you had it? What does your therapist say about your interests?

smithie 24 Oct 2013, 00:24

Jerome if you find a doctor to help please share it with us.

I have been like you for some time. As time has gone by my "needs" have got stronger. After several years of -27 spex with GOC I have moved on to the strongest cls I can find with -39spex GOC.

Suffering from BIID means I am never satisfied and now want surgery to give me a real Rx.

After surgery and then with GOC will allow me to use the same powers as on the Russian Fotki website, my aim is -53 spex.

Therapy for BIID has not helped and I need surgery like you.

Jackson 23 Oct 2013, 10:45

Jerome you are not alone, there are many guys like us. Like you I have tried to find a doctor to operate. One doctor did examine me but said ethical considerations stopped him from going ahead. He did however give me some things to consider.

He said that after a lensectomy high plus power lens implants would make me myopic. In addition, at the same time, high plus IOLs could be inserted piggyback infront and behind the iris. The final result would give me a massive Rx, higher than your desired -25D. The surgery would be reversible but not without risks.

If I could find a doctor to do this I would willing go ahead. The thought of seriously high myodiscs is irresistable.

22 Oct 2013, 23:32

Hi Jerome, we seem to have some commonalities; if you would be interested in chatting some more pls email me at myomafan@yahoo.com.

Jerome 22 Oct 2013, 13:20

Reading these postings I realise that I am not alone. I am retired, aged 60, Rx +1.00 with add +2.00. I relocated five years ago and now live fulltime as a high myope using GOC.

I really would like refractive surgery to give me an Rx of -25.00. Can this be achieved using IOLs? I live in Arizona , US, so cannot find a surgeon locally, I have tried unsuccessfully. Any suggestions?

Tino 19 Oct 2013, 08:42

@Leo

It's ginolatino70@outlook.com

LEO in PERTH 19 Oct 2013, 07:14

TINO

Thank you for your reply .

Could I correspond with you via email also ?Thanks in advance.

Eyechoice 18 Oct 2013, 12:42

Hi Tino. I have followed your posts on the subject of refractive surgery with interest. Like you I have tried a number of options to have the same surgery carried out. Would it be possible to correspond via email. I can be contacted at denbychoice@yahoo.co.k. Many thanks

Tino 18 Oct 2013, 09:13

@LEO

Absolutely, best thing I ever did and my corrected vision is better than it ever was.

I even wear contact lenses now sometimes!

LEO in PERTH 18 Oct 2013, 08:38

TINO

Did you have your lenses replaced because of your desire to wear glasses ?

Adrian 16 Oct 2013, 02:51

Thanks Cactus Jack, Greg and astigmaphile for the good wishes.

Like Steve I wish to thank all those who have supported him these past weeks. You have a great community here. Although we don't actually know anyone on eyescene you have become virtual friends.

Please don't worry about Steve, the doctors are confident he will be fine. Although where we will be staying is remote within driving distance there is a very big town with excellent medical facilities.

Thanks again everyone and bye from us.

Cactus Jack 15 Oct 2013, 22:27

Steve,

I am glad and relieved to hear that you have recovered to the point where you can travel away from expert medical care. We were very concerned about the complications you developed and the potential risk to your sight.

All surgery is risky and modern cataract surgery is normally one of the least risky. When I had cataract surgery with IOLs about 11 years ago, the surgeon insisted on waiting a minimum of two weeks with absolutely no evidence of problems with the first eye, before he would do the other eye. Your surgery with removal of the crystalline lenses and sack or lens capsule was much more serious than mine.

You certainly don't need this advice by now, but don't forget your spare distance and reading glasses and please if you sense any vision or eye problems, take action immediately to get back to London for some expert care. Better safe than sorry.

Enjoy your winter holiday.

GreginColo 15 Oct 2013, 21:24

Steve and Adrian; glad to hear the continuing good news about Steve's vision stabilization and wishing you a good winter vacation, something many of us are likely envious of.

I hope there are no setbacks while you are in a more remote location. Keep us updated as you have the chance. Greg.

astigmaphile 15 Oct 2013, 19:19

That is wonderful news, Steve. Good luck to you.

steve 15 Oct 2013, 14:58

a good checkup at the hospital today it all seems to be going back to normal with no longterm damage

i have been given the okay to leave the uk for the winter and head to our flat in the southerly warmth adrian and i willleave on thursday and return in march 2014 such is the benefit of retirement

i cannotexpress my thanks enough toall those who have supported me these past fewweeks i know there are other guys out there who experience the same feelings as me you understand without judgement and i am very grateful

we go to a tiny village on a small island no phone no internet so sorry no chats for a while

thank you

astigmaphile 09 Oct 2013, 18:16

Adrian,

That is wonderful news that Steve's eyes have no permanent damage. I am sure that he is really grateful for that.

Dave 09 Oct 2013, 11:28

Adrian -- Great news. Please give Steve my best.

GreginColo 09 Oct 2013, 07:20

Thanks Adrian for the update; that's all encouraging news.

Adrian 09 Oct 2013, 02:46

Thanks guys for your concern.

The news on Steve is much better. He had an appointment at the hospital on Monday and was told the treatment is working, the swellings have almost gone. There are no black spots in his central vision which means no permanent damage.

Steve is mobile again. He does not need to use the cane and is again able to look after himself. I returned back to my home yesterday and Steve is living independently. He is very touched by everyone's support and messages.

GreginColo 08 Oct 2013, 14:55

Anyone have any update on our friend Steve? Its been a week since we've heard anything, so hopefully he is progressing well toward regaining his desired level of vision.

astigmaphile 30 Sep 2013, 22:03

Adrian,

Thank you for the update on Steve. I hope that his retinas continue to improve so that he will have the best possible vision with his strong glasses. I know how much this means to him and that this must be a frightening setback.

GreginColo 30 Sep 2013, 21:15

Great news; thanks for the update. Best wishes to Steve for continued improvement.

Adrian 30 Sep 2013, 12:59

Dave, astigmaphile and Greg many thanks for your good wishes.

More good news as the hospital confirmed today that the swellings have gone down a lot. Steve is seeing much better and today read the top letter and first line of the chart. His new glasses which came earlier than expected last week seem to be helping.

Dave 29 Sep 2013, 12:12

Adrian -- My thoughts are with your brother for a speedy recovery. Surgeries -- even the most simple -- can sometimes have unintended consequences so I'm very glad that Steve's vision appears to be stabilizing. This problem may have been something that would've happened anyway if he had had the procedure done for other than fetishistic reasons. Best regards, as always.

Dave 29 Sep 2013, 12:12

Dave 29 Sep 2013, 12:10

GreginColo 28 Sep 2013, 16:31

Adrian and Steve; glad to hear of today's progress and thanks Adrian for the continued updates and also for the message to others who may be thinking about something similar in case this doesn't turn out as Steve had hoped. Continued best wishes. Greg.

astigmaphile 28 Sep 2013, 16:26

Adrian,

I am glad to hear that Steve's eyes are some better. I hope that his retinas continue to get better and that his sight returns.

Adrian 28 Sep 2013, 14:02

Sorry lentifan, astigmaphile and Greg I did not thank you for your good wishes. Steve very much appreciates your kind thoughts.

Adrian 28 Sep 2013, 13:58

Better news at this afternoon's hospital visit. The treatment has been to inject drugs directly into Steve's eyeballs to reduce the swellings of the retina. Initially this appeared not to be working but today's tests show that finally the swellings are reducing. This afternoon Steve has regained some limited shape recognition.

I appreciate I do not have the same feelings for thick glasses as many of you but please value your precious eyesight and do not even think of doing this type of surgery for fetish reasons.

GreginColo 28 Sep 2013, 00:05

Adrian and Steve; I echo the thoughts and wishes of the prior two posts. Best wishes, Greg.

astigmaphile 27 Sep 2013, 20:28

Adrian,

I am so sorry to hear about Steve's eye problem. It would be terrible if after all he has been through this doesn't clear up. All of us in Eyescene should keep good thoughts for him.

lentifan 27 Sep 2013, 16:32

Adrian

We are very sorry to hear of Steve's post-surgery problems. It has been rather a shock to learn of these, as I thought he had been progressing well. Please give him our best wishes. Naturally we hope that these problems are temporary and that there will be no lasting damage.

Adrian 27 Sep 2013, 15:00

Tino, I am very pleased to hear that your surgery went well and you are very happy with the outcome.

Steve, my brother, has run into some complications with his post surgery recovery. At the end of last week he began to experience some blurring in one eye, the central vision was affected first. As last weekend progressed the blurring started in the second eye. It has worsened now in both eyes and in addition he is experiencing considerable distortions.

The hospital have said that both his retinas have swollen at an amazingly fast rate. Medication , at present, is not halting the pace of deterioration of Steve's vision. This morning with his glasses on he was unable to read any letters on the chart.

Naturally we are now concerned about the long term prognosis. He has been warned of possible permanent damage to the retina and the central vision may be lost altogether, really not good for someone wearing such strong plus glasses. Evidently this is a possible complication of any eye surgery.

Several guys have emailed Steve, I will again start to reply to them on his behalf.

Tino 23 Sep 2013, 09:03

@Dave

I sent around 15-20 email approaches to any clinic within reach that had the facility to ask the direct question on their enquiry page. Obviously most came back saying they couldn't help and 2 intimated they could do it then got me in for a consultation before saying they couldn't. By the time I was in correspondence with the clinic that eventually carried out the proceedure I made certain they could help as far as possible before parting with £200+ for a consultation. All the initial approaches and consultations were done under an assumed name before I eventually came clean to the surgeon after he had agreed to carry out the surgery. I have to say he couldn't have been more understanding even though, judging by his reaction to me, I was the first person he had come across with such a request. I have absolute confidence in the clinic and their assurances that my records will remain confidential. Unless I bump into any of the other consultants I met who recognise me, I'm OK with the fact that only 3 or 4 people in the world know my secret and I'm very happy with those odds and the expense given that I have craved the outcome for around 20 years.

Dave 20 Sep 2013, 13:27

Hi Tino --

Congratulations on your successful procedure! I'm surprised you were able to find someone in an EU country willing to perform the operation. Frankly, I'm surprised that Steve was able to find somebody in Mexico, especially since what he wanted was so extreme.

How did you do it?

Best,

Dave

Tino 20 Sep 2013, 08:57

@Steve

I had surgery at about the same time as you but I had my lenses replaced rather than removed and was able to have the proceedure carried out in London.

My own need was to be around a +8 which my surgeon achieved perfectly and I have to say I now feel I have adjusted totally. Even though I was pretty much full time GOC beforehand it's amazing how quickly one adapts when there is no choice and when you are totally dependent on the correction provided by glasses. Even though you have a more dramatic change to get used to I'm sure that in time this will not be overcome and indeed an acquaintance of mine who is +24 after having cataracts removed years ago drives and plays sport with glasses or contacts.

I have now received glasses to my exact new prescription (rather than making do with my old GOC ones) and have found that the adjustments I have had to make have come more easily when the correct (er) correction is used. So therefore I'm confident that in no time at all you will be able to do most of the things you were able to prior to surgery.

Oddly, I have found myself ordering varifocals rather than lined bifocals, paying for thinner lenses and ordering contact lenses to remove the need for glasses at all. I wanted this surgery for as long as I can remember and couldn't be happier with the results. Good luck to you sir with your recovery and adjustment.

GreginColo 14 Sep 2013, 16:41

Thanks Adrian for the update; I am glad you arrived home safely and are back in familiar surroundings which may be easier for Steve to begin his adjustment to. Glad his final appointment went well and thanks for your time and effort to keep the Eyescene thread updated on his progress. Best of luck to both of you. Regards, greg.

14 Sep 2013, 15:14

We arrived back at Heathrow at dawn this morning. I am staying at Steve's place for one night, he is very keen to start being independent.

Luckily there is a food store within walking distance and we have been down today. Steve is without his cane at present and is coping well. Selecting food from the shelves was problematic but he'll adjust.

Met up with some friends at the pub this afternoon. They were quite shocked to see Steve with his new glasses. He calmly explained that his cataract surgery also removed the lens sack and he couldn't have implants. It all sounded very plausible.

To finance the surgery, flights and accommodation etc, Steve sold his car before he left. As it turns out he made a correct decision as I think his driving days are over. Luckily there is a bus stop not far from his home and he can get into town if he wants.

His final appointment with the surgeon went fine, the healing has gone well. Steve got measured up for new glasses, three pairs, and they will be ready in four/five weeks. The glasses are being sent to him in England, guess he'll have to find an optician here to tweak the fitting.

Finally a big thank you for all the support shown to Steve and myself too. Your comments and emails have made a traumatic time for me more bearable. I am very grateful.

Adrian

GreginColo 11 Sep 2013, 23:32

Best wishes for safe travel back to London. At the same time I imagine its hard to leave Mexico. In addition to your vision changes, which hopefully ended up with what you wanted, it sounds like this has been a nice bonding period for you and Adrian. It kind of reminds me of a very good book I recently read, "30 Days with my Brother", or something to that effect, by Nicholas Sparks.

Glad to hear that you are adjusting to your new glasses and good luck with your eye exam tomorrow. You may have already mentioned this so hope I am not being redundant, but what was your Rx before surgery and what is it(preliminary anyway) post surgery, if you don't mind sharing.

Safe travels, Greg.

steve 11 Sep 2013, 18:19

cant believe we are going backto london on friday.it will be strange going back home now. getting on muchbetter with the glasses, I haveeyetesy tomorrow to get proper glasses they will take a month so I will get them in england. thank you for encouraging me steve

GreginColo 09 Sep 2013, 19:47

Thanks Adrian for the update on your weekend. Glad it was both safe and fun.

I had refractive surgery about a decade ago ago to correct my myopia, and while I somewhat regret the surgery, despite successful results, I agree with Nick that I would likely never undergo surgery to worsen my vision.

Adrian and Steve, if you are enjoying your time in Mexico and have no pressing commitments back home, and the cost of staying is within your budget, then it sounds like a good plan, especially to give Steve as much time at the clinic as possible to adjust to his new vision in a supportive and learning environment.

Adrian 09 Sep 2013, 14:54

Thanks astigmaphile, Julian, Cactus Jack, Greg and Nick for your messages.

Nick, I agree Steve's behaviour is difficult to get one's head around. After reading about BIID I really thinks he has tendencies that way. He is not blind though as you say. He actually sees details clearly but his brain cannot process the information. The surgeon is the head doctor at the clinic. He tried to talk Steve out of it all the way up to surgery itself. I now believe he has some appreciation of what has driven Steve.

Cactus Jack you are most wise. Your descriptions fit Steve well. He says it's like looking through a pair of binoculars. He has not got bifocals yet as they will reduce his downward vision even more, maybe later. His add value is the same as you mentioned.

Our weekend away was brilliant. Excellent company with Carlos and his friend Juan. They took good care of us. What you said about spatial memory CJ applied to Carlos this weekend. When he is at the clinic or it's immediate surrounds he moves around effortlessly. Put him in an alien environment and he is a stage only above Steve in mobility. They both struggled on rough ground, stairs and worst of all crowds.

Debating whether to increase our stay further. The two guys we went away with are such fun. Steve's confidence is on the up, I have not seen him so happy in many, many years. Neither of us has any commitments in the UK, so may well extend our stay.

astigmaphile 07 Sep 2013, 20:16

Nick,

While I would not choose to something quite as drastic as Steve did, I do understand the desire. I would love to alter

my prescription, too. I just don't know where to get s surgeon to co-operate. It may be unusual, but there are two others over on Vision and Spex who have done the same thing. If Steve is happy, then I am happy for him. What I want won't work too well GOC>

Nick 07 Sep 2013, 10:46

I am sorry, but with all due respect, I am having a hard time getting on the bandwagon of admiration for Steve. What he did amounts to self mutilation, except that he found a doctor who must have been desperate enough for business to do it to him. In essence, he chose to go blind. I know this is a free society and Steve has every right to pursue his desires (within the law, of course), but I just do not understand it.

That said, I appreciate the fascination that many of us here have with glasses -- I am an "optophile."

I do not wish an ill-will toward Steve. I hope he has no complications, and that he he learns to cope with his new self-inflicted disability, but I just don't understand it.

GreginColo 06 Sep 2013, 18:57

Adrian and Steve:

While some of the rest of us have come through with good wishes and words of encouragement for both of you, Cactus Jack has, as usual, added some really good advice, insights and explanations. I too am glad to hear that you will have some locals to help you safely enjoy your weekend explorations. Enjoy the weekend. Regards, Greg

Cactus Jack 06 Sep 2013, 10:55

Adrian and Steve,

It was painful to read about Steve's fall. Thankfully, he was not hurt and his glasses were not damaged. Unlike cataract patients before IOLs and those who cannot use IOLs, where they have gone from very limited vision to being able to see again with very strong plus glasses, Steve has gone from good vision to total dependency on strong external plus lenses to provide decent vision in a very limited field of view. That is a very difficult transition, probably substantially more difficult that the transition from almost no vision to at least some vision. Vision actually occurs in the brain and the eyes are merely biological cameras.

I have no personal experience, but I know one of our members who was born without lenses in his eyes, probably as a result of Rubella or "German" Measles during gestation. He has to wear even stronger glasses than Steve, but curiously he can function amazingly well without his glasses, of course he has about 20 years of practice and experience. One thing he has developed is incredible spatial memory, he can build a picture in his mind about the location of obstacles and even if he can't actually see them with his non-existent peripheral vision, he remembers where things are, He has also developed exceptional hearing. I saw something on TV recently about the discovery that some people without sight develop the ability to "see" things with their ears by processing the sounds that are reflected by objects in their environment. In some ways similar to the techniques used by whales and dolphins. Time is the big factor in developing new skills. I think the decision to stay an extra week to work with Carlos was a very good one.

I would urge Steve to get one or two spare pairs of distance glasses from the doctor. It may be possible to get replacement glasses quickly in London, but even that may day days. Also, I suggest considering 2 or 3 different powers of glasses for reading, using the computer, and perhaps TV. I have often used the analogy of comparing glasses types to "professional" cameral lenses. Very high plus glasses have a lot of similarities to telephoto lenses, telescopes or binoculars. They have a very narrow depth of field (range of useful focus) and that is what Steve is experiencing with the reading glasses. In this case, practice will not make very perfect because optical physics is getting in the way. As a mater of interest, my friend mentioned above, is able to get high plus bifocals (+6 Add) made by Bausch and Lomb in Germany. They are not cheap and can take a month or more to get made, but it may be worth investigating.

One last thing. Your plan to explore this weekend without a local guide made chills run up and down my spine. I am sure there are places, even in London, that you would not go. I understand that Mexico City is a very cosmopolitan city, but I strongly suspect that there are places there, just as there are here in Houston, New York City, or Washingoton, D.C. that are positively dangerous to go. I was glad to read that Carlos and another man were going with you. Remember, Steve, Carlos and anyone who needs to wear very high plus glasses have almost no peripheral vision and they cannot perceive threats outside their limited field of vision.

I hope you have a great weekend.

Julian 06 Sep 2013, 09:31

Adrian: sorry to hear about Steve's fall. It might be sensible for him to use a chain to keep his glasses within reach, or even a sports strap to keep them in place. If they fall off another time he might not be so lucky!

astigmaphile 06 Sep 2013, 09:18

Adrian,

I think it took alot of guts to go through what Steve did.

I think that he has alot of courage. He is now going through what everyone iwth cataracts went through prior to intraocular lenses. I hope that his mobility improves as he gets used to his new vision.

Adrian 06 Sep 2013, 01:17

Leo, Dave and Greg,

Steve thanks you for your recent good wishes. He is still overwhelmed by the amount of support he has received on eyescene and through personal messages via email.

He continues to make good progress. The reading glasses ordered from America were fitted this morning and are giving him reasonable close vision. He is only able to read print when held at a particular distance from his eyes so more practice is needed there.

Steve had a mishap this afternoon. After a day at the centre he came back very confident so ventured out alone for a short walk minus the white cane. Unfortunately he did not notice some steps and fell down a short flight of three stairs. Thankfully he was not badly hurt. However his glasses came off in the fall, luckily landing on carpet so they did not break. When he got up without glasses he couldn't find them but luckily after a few minutes someone came along and helped him. As a result he is worried that this could happen at anytime he is out without a cane, and now feels that it is wiser to use the stick for longer. A setback but he'll get over it knowing Steve.

This city is very busy and we are both looking forward to a couple of days away. As it is a daunting task for two middle-aged guys to drive in Mexico we asked Carlos, Steve's mentor,and another young man to join us for the weekend. They have suggested some suitable destinations.

LEO in PERTH 05 Sep 2013, 18:00

Adrian

Please wish Steve all of the best.

Dave 04 Sep 2013, 02:17

Adrian --

Please wish your brother the very best during his recovery period. I understand how difficult it must have been for you to have come to terms with his fetish; nevertheless, for those of us who share the same unrealized goal, Steve's desire to make his wish a reality is a source of inspiration to all of us. You're a terrific brother!

Please give Steve my personal best wishes and hopes for a speedy recovery and transition.

David

GreginColo 03 Sep 2013, 19:45

Adrian:

the support the Eyescene community has offered your brother has been significant, as you mentioned, and hopefully helpful. But more significant is the support you have offered him, in making this desired transition for him possible. I commend him on his progress, you on your support and understanding, and glad the two of you will have some time to hopefully enjoy some new sights and sounds over the w/e.

Adrian 03 Sep 2013, 15:28

What a great way this website allows folk to communicate with people all over. Steve is overwhelmed with the support shown. He can't, at present, answer the emails personally but he is making a start on the computer.

This community has shown me what a great bunch you are. Ten days ago I really had little/no idea what was about to happen. Explanations of what is going on in Steve's mind is helping me come to terms with my brothers actions. Other guys who share the same feelings as Steve have given him strength, up to now he has been a silent and private participant in his glasses fetishes.

The low vision centre is really helping him. He has been assigned a mentor who himself had cataract surgery some years ago and could not have implants, so he also wears the same sort of glasses as Steve. Today he has been out walking in the street with his cane. He went with Carlos, the mentor, to a café and had to fend for the two of them. Carlos is much more demanding of Steve than I have been. Part of me feels I need to help him but Steve needs to make mistakes and learn from them, Carlos lets him make mistakes in a protected environment.

They have suggested two weeks at the centre to help Steve. So we have extended our stay by a week. I have hired a car and plan to take the pair of us out of the city at the weekend. Lets hope the reading glasses have arrived so at least I'll have a map reader!!

steve 03 Sep 2013, 15:01

making progresss,thanks for all messages really appreciate them rehab is helping alotadian willtell you

Adrian 03 Sep 2013, 10:24

GreginColo,

Steve is at the low vision centre all day today. He is much more confident than even at the weekend.

I have no major vision problems except age related, ie I need reading glasses. Steve now seems to have a very magnified view of the world and when he is looking straight at an object he sees it clearly and it is very large.

I am sure if you send Steve an email on

stevewrightman@hotmail.co.uk

then he will willingly send you a photo.

Adrian

GreginColo 03 Sep 2013, 07:57

Thanks Adrian for your support of your brother Steve in his quest for permanent dependence on higher power glasses. I hope he gains the level of functionality that he was hoping for and I am sure he greatly appreciates your support and understanding through this journey. Though of us who read this sight also appreciate the time and effort that you have taken to share this experience on Steve's behalf. Hopefully at some point he will feel comfortable sharing a photo of himself in his new glasses. You also mentioned he could see better across the room then you could with your glasses on, so was just wondering about your own visual situation if you would feel comfortable sharing. Thanks again for the time and effort you have put forth to support and share with others regarding Steve's vision transition. Regards. Greg.

Adrian 03 Sep 2013, 02:27

Thanks Pseudo-Olek and Julian,

Very interesting articles. I don't know if Jewel's experiences are sexually based as in Steve's case.

In the course of time Steve will regain his independence and be free of the visual aids. He will retrain his brain to adjust to his new vision. But he is totally honest with me now, he has done this for the sexual satisfaction, it is very honest of him to admit this to me. He gets a real buzz from wearing the new glasses, a fetish is after all just that.

It is good to hear from other people who have done this or have considered surgery for a fetish reason. Obviously it is extreme behaviour but I cannot believe Steve is alone in this.

Pseudo-Olek 03 Sep 2013, 01:28

To Julian and Adrian

Yes, I mean Body integrity identity disorder

Also I recommend to review this blog

http://transabled.org/category/thoughts/other-thoughts/jewels-thoughts

Of cource this is really extreme case, but in some points similar.

Julian 03 Sep 2013, 01:08

Adrian: I didn't know what BIID was either, so I did a Google search. The first entry was British Institute of Interior Design ::) but there are entries that give an explanation of Body Integrity Identity Disorder - you might like to have a look.

Adrian 03 Sep 2013, 01:02

Dear myopeinhere,

I have been meaning to reply to your note on here.

Yes, your word "disable" is appropriate in this case.

It is fair to mention that people like Steve are driven to do this to themselves by very strong desires and forces. Maybe you don't experience these feelings but others do. Steve's actions show what a man will do to become powerful glasses dependent.

Again please feel free to contact him directly by email. He has argued his case thoroughly so please do not feel unable to discuss this with him.

Adrian 03 Sep 2013, 00:54

Dear Pseudo-Olek

I am not sure what BIID means. If it is a condition which explains this behaviour then I would be interested to hear more.

In Steve's case the operations were irreversible by Steve's own choice. However, if you can give some more details about this condition, others reading this maybe helped.

Thank you for your contribution. Like for GL, please feel able to write to Steve on

stevewrightman@hotmail.co.uk

He will no doubt answer you in due course.

Adrian

Adrian 03 Sep 2013, 00:45

Dear GL,

I have been thinking carefully about what you said earlier. I cannot admit to having any real understanding of what Steve has done.

He obviously is driven strongly by his feelings to be a thick glasses wearer. You mentioned that you also have such a fetish. Maybe, like Steve, you use contact lenses to achieve the desired result. He did try with the contact lenses and strong glasses but had problems wearing the contact lenses for the higher power. It is now obvious to me that the buzz, the excitement which such a fetish gives the wearer must be intense, almost addictive and may lead to these dramatic actions being taken to satisfy a need.

Steve can see now. He reads writing and detail across a room which I cannot do even with my glasses on. What he cannot process at present, or he forgets, is that low obstacles are out of view. The use of the cane is temporary until he trains himself to be continually moving his head up/down and left/right to scan the area where he is walking.

Close up work and reading is dependent on new glasses being available with the required power. Unfortunately the clinic does not stock the required high power. Temporary reading glasses have been ordered from America and should be here later this week.

I really do appreciate your concern and thank you, on behalf of Steve, for your good wishes. Please feel free to write to Steve on

stevewrightman@hotmail.co.uk.

He has received several e-mails from guys who also share the same fetish. Their messages have helped him a lot. So please feel able to contact him directly, he is aware of all the comments made on here.

From Adrian

Adrian 02 Sep 2013, 17:43

I am a bit apprehensive about writing now.

Steve spent six hours at the centre today. He has made some good progress today. The visual aids are to help him for only the next couple of weeks as he adjusts to his new vision.

Basically he is being encouraged to move his head much more as eye movement is no use with his poor field of vision. He keeps tripping up because as he looks ahead he has no idea what is going on at his feet. He has a cane now and that is helping. He can find obstacles with the cane and then knows to look down to avoid them.

The clinic where he had the surgery stocks glasses up to number 30. Steve is using number 27 at present for distance and they do not have strong enough lenses in stock for his reading. Today he has been issued with a large rectangular magnifying glass on a stand. With this above the keyboard and with careful positioning of his head he can read a few keys at a time.

I understand now that all this is due to an intense fetish that Steve has for thick glasses.

Pseudo-Olek 02 Sep 2013, 16:13

To GL

Just my $0.02. In my opinion the story described goes beyond the optical fetish. It's something connected with such stuff known as BIID.

Nevertheless i also keep track this thread because pretty interested in such procedure.

GL 02 Sep 2013, 14:33

I've been closely watching this thread ever since Steve embarked on his chosen path. I have to say it leaves me feeling cold. Why? Because I can't understand why anyone would voluntarily destroy their eyesight. I know this is a fetish issue. I'm a minus glasses fetishist, but maybe someone can help me understand more clearly (no pun intended).

I bear Steve no malice and I wish him well. I hope the outcome is the one he wants. If he gets what he wants, then that is great. But what if the outcome isn't what he wants? What will he be left with? His brother makes mention of 'visual aids'. Well, I hope I'm wrong, but I think the only visual aid Steve will be using is a white stick.

I say all this with love and concern for a fellow human being. I wish Steve well, but something within me wishes he hadn't undertaken this exercise.

Best wishes, Steve. I hope it all works out for you.

Tino 02 Sep 2013, 03:02

Sound like it's been a big week for refractive surgery as I managed to find a clinic in London that was happy to carry out lens replacement surgery to leave me with a +8 prescription. The surgery appears to be a success, my eyes seem to be healing well and, after a follow up later this week, I will be able to have a test to obtain an accurate genuine prescription.

My current GOC glasses seem to be pretty good for distance but as monofocal lenses were implanted it seems I will need quite a big add for close work. All good news then!

Adrian 31 Aug 2013, 12:54

lentifan, I have passed your message onto Steve. He very much appreciated what you said. He'll write himself as soon as possible.

After this message Steve will dictate replies to the couple of e-mails which he has received from guys on here. They mean a lot to him I can tell.

His eyes are healing well. The doctor this morning was pleased with progress on that front. He assessed Steve when walking around the clinic, up and down stairs and out of the front door into the street. As a result Steve has been referred to a rehabilitation centre in the city, his appointment is on Monday. There,they will give him tips and techniques to use to help him get used to his new glasses. Also they may issue him with some visual aids to help. We are not sure yet what this means.

Steve thought he would adjust relatively quickly. He is beginning to admit that things are much more difficult than he imagined. He loves his new glasses. Seems to look in the mirror whenever possible trying to see himself.

lentifan 30 Aug 2013, 18:25

Adrian

I'm very pleased that your brother Steve's surgery has gone according to plan. Your brother is right - some of us here do understand and are very envious of him.

You are concerned about him seeming clumsy and bumping into things, but that is what I would have expected at this very early stage. It will take some time for him to get used to his new, and very different, vision, but he will, I think, in the fullness of time, get used to it.

Please pass on to him our best wishes and keep us posted on his progress until he is able to post himself. We are keen to learn his glasses prescription!

And thank you, Adrian, for being supportive for what I am sure is a very important issue to Steve.

Adrian Wrightman 30 Aug 2013, 08:36

My brother Steve has now had successful surgery on both eyes. With the first temporary glasses supplied by the clinic he is able to see enough to get around the hotel area. Steve says he sees well but I am not convinced as he seems clumsy and bumps into many things.

He tried to explain to me on the plane over what and why he was doing this to himself. I don't really understand. Steve feels that several guys on here understand how he feels and his needs. If anyone wants to contact him then he would be happy to hear from you.

stevewrightman@hotmail.co.uk

Adrian

Spexman 26 Aug 2013, 15:46

Hi Steve

Hope it went ok. Me for my sake I would very much like to have IOL:s "installed" of around +6 to +8 diopters making me a myope around -9 to -11

maybe you can invetsigate the possibilitys if this turns out good.

I whish you the best luck with this and looking forward to hear more.

Steve 25 Aug 2013, 04:28

I really appreciate all the good wishes. Thank you.

My bags are packed, my brother picks me up in a couple of hours for the drive to Heathrow. It really is happening now. In a couple of days I'll be wearing such thick glasses.

I'll be in touch as soon as I can.

Jarred 24 Aug 2013, 08:47

Hi Steve, Good luck for next week, your a lucky chap! I look forward to hearing how it goes.

LEO in PERTH 24 Aug 2013, 07:59

All of the best ,Steve , I understand.

Take care.

myopeinhere 24 Aug 2013, 02:53

Sorry,but I'm in the other camp,why anyone would want to disable themselves is beyond me

Ranks alongside wanting a limb amputated to me.

Eyesight is an amazingly precious thing.

Steve 24 Aug 2013, 02:40

lentifan,

Thank you for your good wishes. I am getting very excited now about next week. Apprehensive too, as I know I have difficult and maybe challenging adjustments to make.

lentifan 23 Aug 2013, 18:29

Steve

Your adventure sounds very exciting indeed! I wish you success and hope that the results are exactly what you want. Please do tell us how things go; I am very untrigued.

Steve 23 Aug 2013, 02:53

Cactus Jack,

Thank you for your good wishes.

I have considered the procedure you talked about to become myopic. My interests lie with very high plus glasses which I find very attractive. Also I have to consider what people I know will say by a sudden jump from +8D to minus spectacles. Everyone knows me in my present glasses and I have told them that I need a cataract operation very soon to prepare the ground so to speak.

The two combinations of GOC have given me an insight into what to expect. I wear the +12D glasses more as I find the contact lenses with the +20D glasses are very uncomfortable and I can only wear them for short periods. It will be great to go outside with the post surgery glasses, up to now I have only worn GOC inside my flat. Only my brother has seen me in the strongest glasses.

As you suggest I will keep you informed as to how I get on.

Thank you again. Steve

Cactus Jack 22 Aug 2013, 09:29

Steve,

Thank you for the information. I fully respect your decision and I wish you the very best outcome possible. I am very glad to hear that your brother will be accompanying you and be there to provide assistance while you are acclimating to your new visual environment, at least. Unlike a person who has developed cataracts and cannot have IOLs for some reason, you have had the opportunity to experience extreme hyperopia and have made the choice for your own reasons. I had cataract surgery about 12 years ago. I made the choice of different IOL powers to give me mono vision with near 20/20 vision in one eye and about -1.50 in the other. I can function without my glasses, but function much better with trifocals.

The idea of crystalline lens replacement for reasons other than cataract is becoming accepted more and more by the ophthalmology community. One well respected ophthalmologist here is advertising multi-focal lens replacement to correct presbyopia and at the same time eliminate the need for future cataract surgery. However, I do not think he would be interested in doing any surgical procedure that did not "improve" vision. On occasion, there have been members who wanted to be significantly more myopic. That would be easy to accomplish by replacing the crystalline lens with an IOL with significantly more + than the power of their natural crystalline lens. You might ask the doctor if he would be interested in providing that service. The only snag there might be the available + powers of the IOLs.

Please keep us updated on your experiences and progress.

Steve 22 Aug 2013, 01:55

Cactus Jack,

Thank you for your concerns, I do fully appreciate what you are saying.

I am 52, single and have been retired for two years. During the past five years I have experimented with GOC using minus contact lenses and high plus glasses. For three years I have used a GOC combination with +20D glasses bought online.

I understand your concerns about loss of peripheral vision and huge magnification problems. It will be a drastic step to be permanently wearing very high plus glasses but I feel the advantages outweigh the problems I will encounter. Maybe other people reading these comments will understand the very strong desire which exists to be able to wear extreme high plus glasses.

My brother, who knows what and why I am doing next week, will travel with me to Mexico. For a period of time I will need his help, in particular negotiating the airports for the return journey. Like you, he has tried to make me see sense, but now accepts that my desires are strong.

Thank you again, I do appreciate your concerns.

Steve

Cactus Jack 21 Aug 2013, 22:13

Steve,

May I ask a couple of questions:

1. May I ask your age and occupation?

2. Have you ever tried GOC using significant - contacts to simulate much higher hyperopia and very high plus glasses to correct it?

Before you take the non-reversible step, you might ask the doctor if he has any contacts in the high minus ranges that he could let you try with very high plus glasses. Most people who need very high plus glasses report that they have very limited peripheral vision and cannot see anything that is not straight ahead. One person described his vision when riding the train as being able to see the person directly across from him, but could not tell if there was anyone beside that person on either side.

Please understand that I am not being critical of your desires or your decision to wear very high plus glasses. I just thought that you might like, if you have not done so, to experience what you can expect with extreme hyperopia before making the final commitment.

Steve 21 Aug 2013, 16:04

Cactus Jack,

You got me thinking so I have telephoned the doctor. He is doing the first option you mentioned. He will be removing the lens and its sac too. No IOL will be possible at a later date which I am happy about. If there are difficulties adjusting to my new vision then I have to overcome them. All part of the buzz.

Steve 21 Aug 2013, 12:33

Cactus Jack,

There has been no mention of the possibility of inserting an implant at a later date. I know the surgery will give me the opportunity to wear extremely powerful plus lenses which has been my dream for so long. I am unsure which procedure he will use.

Cactus Jack 21 Aug 2013, 10:14

Steve,

Do you know if the Dr. plans to remove your crystalline lenses and the capsule or just emulsify your crystalline lenses and leave the capsule intact? Did he mention any window of opportunity after the lens removal to change your mind about replacing the lens with an IOL implant?

Steve 21 Aug 2013, 09:18

Thank you for your good wishes.

Steve 21 Aug 2013, 09:17

The plan is to fly out from London on Monday. Have the first eye done on Tuesday.

If all is well then on Wednesday I get new glasses from the clinic, they keep in stock lenses in 0.5D increments upto +30D. The doctor wants me to wear a patch over my unoperated eye for a day to make sure I can cope with the high plus lens on the other. This is going to be a difficult time.

All being well on Thursday or Friday he'll do the second eye. Then I have a day with that eye covered and only thick plus glasses for getting about.

By the weekend I get to use the high plus glasses on both eyes. I am staying another week for check-ups and getting used to my new vision.

At present I have an rx of +8D with a +3D add. The hope is that I will need to have new glasses at the very highest power stocked by the clinic. Not bifocals but separate distance and reading glasses.

I have dreamed of this for so long. I cannot believe a doctor has agreed to do it. I'm anxious but so excited.

21 Aug 2013, 08:48

Wow, Steve, that does sound exciting! I've dreamt about that possibility myself for many years, but I suspect it would be at the cost of my marriage if I could achieve it. Will the clinic in Mexico provide you with glasses for the trip home? How many days are you allowing to get used to them (they are bound to be lenticulars if you are +20 or more - will they also be bifocal?)before your trip home?

Please tell us as much about your experience as you can. And good luck!

Steve 21 Aug 2013, 02:47

I am longsighted but for many years have dreamed of needing very thick plus glasses. Reading these comments encouraged me to find a doctor to remove my lenses and not replace with implants. After nearly two years searching I have found a guy in Mexico City.

I'm due to fly out next Monday but getting anxious along with the excitement. Is there anyone on here who has already done a similar thing and now wears glasses in the mid plus twenties?

Tino 08 May 2013, 10:05

I have been wearing +9 for years over +8 contacts. I 'progressed' to that level after building up from around +2 and have tried significantly stronger rx but did not get on with the extreme magnification. I'm still hopeful of finding a surgeon willing to perform the surgery I crave in the UK but accept that I'm likely to have to travel further afield. Perhaps oddly, I see myself regularly wearing contacts to correct my hyperopia in the event that I manage to obtain the surgery. Just like anyone with a 'real' prescription.

LEO in PERTH 05 May 2013, 06:30

Thank you Leo.

LEO 05 May 2013, 00:59

LEO in PERTH

I have separate distance and reading glasses, both with fullfield lenses. Before lenticular lenses have reduced even further peripheral vision.

lLEO in PERTH 04 May 2013, 23:30

what type of glasses do you wear Leo ?

Leo 02 May 2013, 14:41

Hi Pete,

Thanks for your note. I am happy to continue to chat on eyescene or elsewhere.

The desire to wear thick strong glasses can be overwhelming and indeed drive some of us to drastic solutions. For me, contacts were so uncomfortable they were not a possibility. Lens extraction gave me an instant and permanent Rx which I so longer for.

pete 02 May 2013, 13:17

To Leo et al:

I've been lurking this thread with fascination. I would never consider such surgery let alone GOC, in fact, but as I say, I'm fascinated by the desire and devotion to wear thick glasses full time.

Just wanted to share that I'm one of those flies on the wall who will miss your conversation here but taking it elsewhere is certainly your prerogative.

Thanks for stirring my interest.

pete

Leo 02 May 2013, 13:05

LEO in PERTH

Maybe you would or others would like to chat about glasses on

leogerald@hotmail.co.uk

LEO in PERTH 02 May 2013, 08:18

LEO

my glasses are -17.75 for GOC with +17 contacts. After 52 years of wanting to wear high rx glasses, GOC is the closest to the real thing.

I did not consider surgery .I always thought it would be imposible to find somone who would agree to do it ?

Leo 01 May 2013, 12:23

LEO in PERTH.

What Rx do you wear GOC? Are you considering surgery?

Leo 01 May 2013, 12:21

Tino,

No hiding it was hard for me to find a surgeon willing to operate on healthy eyes. But I found two, one in Delhi, the other Bangkok.

I went with the Delhi surgeon and I told him the truth. Surprisingly he agreed to do the operation as he said I had been so honest. Maybe feigning a reason would look shallow.

It has been five years now and I have no regrets at all. It took me a while to adjust to my new vision but as difficult as high plus glasses are to wear the problems can be overcome.

NJ 01 May 2013, 08:46

Tino, what Rx are you at with GOC? I'm not sure why your friend struggles so much, though perhaps she is just one of those people who have a hard time adjusting. Most people with cataract glasses do OK.

Honestly, if you're willing to travel to India or Mexico where medical tourism is big, I'm sure you can get whatever procedure you want. I was just in and out, few questions asked. Places like the UK and the US have a lot of laws that effectively prevent physicians from doing any procedures that may be deemed harmful. I liken it to cosmetic surgery in that I wasn't born with the eyesight I wanted, but now have it thanks to modern medicine and surgery.

LEO in PERTH 01 May 2013, 06:05

Hi Nj.

No, I did not have refractive surgery .I wear GOC.

Leo, please to meet you .

Tino 01 May 2013, 03:28

NJ, The issue I have is that I have been full time GOC for about 12 years and I believe the step up in prescription would be noticable. Furthermore an acquaintance of mine had her natural lenses removed many years ago (before IOLs existed) and, although I understand you do OK, she struggles to function even with her glasses or contact lenses whereas I don't want to take that chance. Basically I want to have my cake and eat it.

Leo 30 Apr 2013, 23:57

Great chatting last night to you guys who have already had,or are considering, lens extraction surgery to give a very high rx. I had no idea that so many of us exist. I have no regrets and enjoy every minute of the visual challenges which result from this procedure.

Leo 30 Apr 2013, 11:48

NJ and Tino,

How great to meet you guys. It's been five years since I had the surgery and you are the first guys who I have spoken to about it.

I plan to go on lenschat.com this evening, about 9pm UK time.

NJ 30 Apr 2013, 09:48

And one doc offered to fit an IOL so that I could get more magnification, but I passed on that option for the same reasons you are worried about having an IOL that doesn't fully correct your vision.

NJ 30 Apr 2013, 09:46

My explanation was simple: I had uncorrected hyperopia/amblyopia as a kid and am only correctable to 20/60 in my good eye. I've been wearing GOC for the magnification so I can drive (20/40 where I live), but can no longer tolerate the CLs. I even found some low vision textbooks where the GOC technique is described. All that said, I don't think they really cared so long as I was willing to pay them their fee.

I'm not sure how you would explain an IOL that resulted in such a poor correction. But why not just do without the IOL?

Tino 30 Apr 2013, 02:36

Leo and NJ

If you have had your natural lenses removed and rely soley on glasses or contacts to function I understand that there are valid explainations you can provide to opthamologists when you attend eye examinations (which must be a fantastic experience now). The issue I have is that I want to have implants leaving me with a still substantial prescription. I remain a little concerned that, if I'm lucky enough to get the surgery that I want, I'll be exposed in future when any professional looks into my eye and sees an IOL transplant. Any ideas how I explain that one?

Tino 30 Apr 2013, 02:31

I'm still 'shopping around' and remain hopeful of getting the surgery I want in England. The first consultation is a real heart in the mouth experience, like admitting to being an addict of some sort but those with subsequent consultants become easier. I've had to explain why I want the surgery and what I hope to achieve from it on a number of occasions but still haven't got a concrete agreement from a consultant willing to undertake the surgery. What I would say is that there appears to be genuine surprise from everyone I have spoken to so my hope that I may not be as unusual as I thought appears unfounded.

Leo 30 Apr 2013, 01:12

Anyone interested in sharing post refractive surgery experiences , we could chat on lenschat.com. I sign is as Leo

Leo 29 Apr 2013, 16:04

Have you already had the surgery or still planning? It would be great if we could all share experiences.

Leo 29 Apr 2013, 11:45

LEO in PERTH

I am pleased to meet you LEO in PERTH.

Have you also had refractive surgery?

NJ 29 Apr 2013, 09:15

Leo in Perth: Did you find a surgeon in India? The price you mentioned seems about standard now, and just a little cheaper than the price I got. Funny, but the price was the same whether or not I got an IOL.

LEO in PERTH 29 Apr 2013, 08:33

TINO

There seems to be two LEOS ,which might confuse others.

I,am LEO who ask Tino about IOL on 28 april. I think I'll refer to myself as LEO in PERTH in future, so I don't get to confused :-)

varifocals 29 Apr 2013, 04:55

My wife who has always had glasses & was -4.75 had a cataract operation.

She is now +2.75 & needs reading glasses. Distance is ok.

Leo 29 Apr 2013, 00:29

Hi NJ,

It sounds like we both had the same surgery. I was a natural rx of plus 2 before my lenses were removed. Now I use very high plus glasses to correct my vision.

Take care,

Leo

NJ 28 Apr 2013, 13:49

Sorry...meant to say that it cost me $4500, not $2500...

NJ 28 Apr 2013, 12:57

A few years ago I was able to find a clinic in Mexico that would do a simple lens extraction without IOL placement. This is more than moderate hyperopia, but I suspect they might also do a reduced power IOL so that you can get whatever level of hyperopia. The cost was about $2500 USD for both eyes.

Leo 28 Apr 2013, 11:20

I found it impossible to find a surgeon in the UK willing to fit IOLs to increase my low rx. But better luck in Delhi,India, where anything is possible for the payment of Rupees. Cost just over £1000 per eye.

leo 28 Apr 2013, 07:38

TINO

Haven't read about you for a while,had ay luck with IOL ?

27 Feb 2013, 11:44

I've finally plucked up the courage to speak to various clinics about the possibility of having laser or lens replacement surgery to allow me to permanently be a moderate hyperope (I currently permanently wear +8 glasses over -9 contacts). A couple have asked me for the 'benefit' of having the surgery and, obviously 'I just want to' doesn't cut it.

So, my question is, can anyone give me some good suggestions of a benefit of having poor sight and relying on correction to function?

Thanks in advance!

Leo 07 Jan 2013, 11:32

Tino

Try e-mailing every refractive surgeon in the developing world, India or Mexico say. Explain what you want done. Most will not answer. Some refuse immediately. A few are less direct with their refusal. Phone the latter group. Maybe you will be lucky too.

Alex 02 Jan 2013, 20:24

So, can surgery work for hperopia? or is this a consideration for implantation if 20'20 is tricky with glasses. thanx

gis48team 03 Dec 2011, 18:04

Let us open campaign for the international warranty to arrest all lasikers on base of crime against human eyes and barbarity...

Tino 17 Oct 2011, 12:51

Can anyone tell me how Lasik clinics assess your prescription? Is it done with an auto-refractor or do they simply work from your prescrition and calculate what to do from there? Any way of conning them? Better still, can anyone point me in the direction of a clinic that will give me a prescription I want (high+) or carry out clear lens extraction for me. Fortunately money isn't a problem. I'm in England.

chrisb 01 Sep 2011, 15:50

condemning lasik.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLzGdiWJBCU&feature;=related

Neil 30 May 2011, 14:44

What is amazing to me is that, even with refractive surgery, you see so many people still in eyeglasses and contact lenses. It seems like there are indeed many people who are put off by the procedure.

I have heard that these days many ECPs take the initiative to recommend surgery to their patients (i.e., try to upsell the procedure). I wonder if they find it strange when patients say "no thanks."

29 May 2011, 17:25

"12 Sep 2010, 22:37"

We must have the same source of info.

I find them very reliable.

Aubrac 28 May 2011, 07:54

Lasik

Difficult to know what to believe here. This is certainly BIG business with a heck of a lot of money changing hands for these procedures. Also if there are any claims these could run into billions world wide.

Seems strange that the 1st generation laser is initially hailed as being risk free, then the 2nd generation, then the 3rd etc.

Personally I think that anyone who has has a cut made and reshaping of the cornea in what is a very sensitive and finely balanced part of the body must realise there is a considerable risk. However denial and vanity often win the day.

Trent 27 May 2011, 22:16

Doctors are not telling their patients the truth! Spread the word!

"patients who have problems after Lasik surgery is actually closer to 20% or 30%."

This Week on 16:9 - May 28 - 20/20 Hindsight

http://www.globaltvcalgary.com/programs/16x9/This+Week+Hindsight/4843509/story.html

12 Sep 2010, 22:37

Kayto, consider this. Tough it out till you die.

After that there may be options.

One, you can choose to have any degree of myopia you want and change it daily.

Two, you will have 20/20 and no memory or desire of wanting to be any other way.

Three, you may be shoveling coal and have no desire for anything.

Your results may vary.

Trent 12 Sep 2010, 21:42

Gene Discovery for Nearsightedness

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100912151554.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm;_medium=feed&utm;_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Latest+Science+News%29&utm;_content=Google+International

Cactus Jack 09 Sep 2010, 14:32

Kayto,

Theoretically, yes. Practically, no.

You might have better luck trying to get an internal "contact lens", at least they can be removed. But few opthalmic surgeons will take the risk. Doing the surgery probably violates the most basic oath of the medical profession. "First, do no harm."

Katyo 09 Sep 2010, 13:29

I wonder if it's possible to have surgery to increase myopia?

JP 04 Jun 2010, 09:55

New eye surgery may be safer than lasers

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/besttreatments/2010/may/12/new-eye-surgery-may-be-safer-than-lasers

Wei 29 May 2010, 15:53

Laser of eye be can of prism? Is many of rx implant of lens!

Emma 15 Apr 2010, 11:06

I agree. Not many have the honour of being (genuinely!!) wear myodiscs so we should wear them with pride!

Wei 14 Apr 2010, 14:00

I think is no laser of -17d but i wear mysodisc very rare so is good!

Dieter 28 Oct 2009, 13:49

Actually, this is about vision training but let me explain. I read this article by Ginny Graves last night. She claims to have had lasik to correct significant myopia since age 8. She was disappointed because: one eye was not fully corrected, she saw halos at night, and presbyopia left her requiring reading glasses. Now, isnt all of that a big surprise?! Then she found this computer vision training that stimulates the brain and nerves to improve the visual process. She explains the eyes as cameras much like Cactus Jack does and claimed it improved her vision. But it sounds like it is limited to helping only moderate myopes and very new presbyopes. Read about it in the Oct. 2009 Vogue. I think I hate her, the inventor, and the company that is marketing it.

Here is a link to a blogger showing the photo from the article:

http://thatgirlgwen.tumblr.com/post/198878678/via-goodbye-glasses-in-the-october-vogue

Here is a link to a press release of the company:

http://www.newswiretoday.com/news/58049/

gwgs 13 Apr 2009, 00:19

Too right Kate, you should count yourself lucky, and so will lots of guys.

How long have you worn myo's for? How old are you?

Kate 12 Apr 2009, 06:49

I'm not suitable for surgery so have no choice but to unblended myodiscs i'm told due to my high rx. But, hey, not many people need myodiscs so it's good to be different!

Clare 11 Apr 2009, 12:04

Ooops, got ahead of myself - last post was from me!

11 Apr 2009, 12:04

I know I'm a contacts lover but logic says to me - never do it! I've known people do it and have great results but to me it's unproven and we don't know what it will look like 10 years down the road.

Contacts wear but not brainwashed!

Melyssa 04 Apr 2009, 07:40

Another Lasik link:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/magazine/42112817.html

chrisb 02 Apr 2009, 15:07

maybe would have done better to post this link here.

http://www.which.co.uk/news/2009/03/laser-eye-surgery-advice-misleads-consumers-172443.jsp

marsh 02 Apr 2009, 14:09

melyssa, how about coming to lenschat??? again? when?

Melyssa 02 Apr 2009, 13:00

I guess I picked the right day for my previous post, eh? Actually, the only true part is that sentence. Like I'd ever give up my 30+ pairs of big, bold, and beautiful glasses! :)

Jo 02 Apr 2009, 06:30

If only it was real.

Johnny 01 Apr 2009, 20:32

http://www.lasikathome.com/index.html -> it's a HOAX site. Pretty funny though.

marsh 01 Apr 2009, 18:05

Melyssa, What happened! Lasik, you gave up the -9's!! abandoned us! Blonde was OK, but you have done that and still went with your wardrobe of g. Tell us about it. Marsh

lentifan 01 Apr 2009, 14:05

Sorry about the accidental triple post, folks!

lentifan 01 Apr 2009, 14:04

Melyssa

Is that all of it, or just the lasik part?

lentifan 01 Apr 2009, 13:59

Melyssa

Is that all of it, or just the lasik part?

lentifan 01 Apr 2009, 13:59

Melyssa

Is that all of it, or just the lasik part?

01 Apr 2009, 13:52

Melyssa: APRIL FOOL!!

Melyssa 01 Apr 2009, 12:45

It's been a busy week for me. I had my hair cut short, got a new cable modem, had Lasik, and had my hair dyed blonde. After all, my name is pronounced "Melissa" and about 90% of women with that name whom I've known or seen has blonde hair.

Katy 09 Jan 2009, 13:04

I like the way it says 'the whole procedure takes only a few minutes and is virtually painless' and then: 'this statement has not been evaluated by the FDA' :-)

lentifan 09 Jan 2009, 12:42

And why does he appear to be holding a foodmixer?

OttO 09 Jan 2009, 10:10

Very Scary!!! Only a FOOL would do such a procedure on him/her self. Sounds like the lawyer who defends himself. He's got a FOOL for a client.

Yoyo 09 Jan 2009, 09:21

. . . and yet, the guy who developed this "Lasik At Home" technology is still wearing glasses.

Katy 09 Jan 2009, 09:16

I can't work out whether this is a joke or not..

http://www.lasikathome.com/index.html

:-S

Melyssa 16 Nov 2008, 07:20

I didn't watch it, but I have no intention of ever getting Lasik or Lasix or Lakers (whatever it's called), nor does my husband. With my strong prescription and astigmatism, I don't trust the procedure.

micha 16 Nov 2008, 05:42

Peter G, this is article about the danger of Lasik in German.

http://m.spiegel.de/article.do?id=589822&emvp;=1

Peter G 16 Nov 2008, 02:40

I also posted this to Thought of the Day, as I could not initially find this thread.

Moving away from the political discussion - German TV channel RTL posted a news item warning viewers about the dangers of laser treatment, specifically Lasik. They referred to an incidence of 20% of side effects, mainly glare at night. For this reason, both pilots and train drivers in Germany are not allowed to have lasik. Also, they showed a case of a young lady who had lasik, but was allergic, and should never have been allowed to take the treatment. After initial good results, she now has only 20% vision, and this is apparently irreversible. A professor warned that lasik is a major operation, and should not be undertaken lightly.

Of course, just the kind of news report an OO likes to see, hopefully the GWGs were watching too.

Green Tree 15 May 2008, 17:22

Hi Trent,

Gee it's getting pretty scary, interocular lenses, contact containing cancer causing toxins. And in your previous post a Lasik victim driven to commit suicide after a botched operation. We need to get the word out that the only safe solution to vision correction is glasses.

Trent 15 May 2008, 11:28

Unsuitable candidate for Lasik, Dr has recommended intraocular lenses for me. Bisphenol A is another reason to avoid even these. Glasses are still best choice See Link

http://www.sujanani.com/lasik/lasik_surgery/?p=100446

Trent 26 Apr 2008, 08:50

A panel of medical advisers mostly eye doctors wearing glasses listened to tales of woe and wonder Friday from people who sought to get rid of their specs through LASIK surgery.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/04/25/lasik.surgery.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Willy 04 Mar 2008, 14:32

Did anyone else see the Today show this morning (US) in which they featured a new type of eye surgery in which they implant a contact lens in the eye. Afterward the patient was happily talking about how now he could see without glasses or contacts -- well, not really, right? One of the hosts (I think David Gregory who was subbing for Matt) then asked the $64,000 question about what would happen if the vision changes. The doctor just said not to worry, the contact lens is inert and never changes....! I mean, apart from our own unique interests here, doesn't this sound like the stupidest idae on the face of the earth?

sourgrapes 17 Feb 2008, 15:28

Indeed. We will all need some help seeing up close when we get older, anyways.. But I guess if you *really* hate having to wear glasses or contacts all the time, then that surgery can give you some years of "freedom" from correction.

-5.00 who luvs gwgs 17 Feb 2008, 14:59

For purely vanity what is the point a lady of my acquaintance had laser surgery when in her mid thirties she was about -3.00 now 10 years later she has had to get some -1.00s for driving and a plus pair for reading what a waste of money let alone the risks to her eyes from unecessary surgery

Jennifer 13 Dec 2007, 13:41

They wear their glasses for the last time for that period of time. Saying good bye to those "ugly" glasses. What a shame, I say. I would never consider it and would never say it's the best thing to do. Too bad....

Melyssa 13 Dec 2007, 12:44

A coworker of mine whom I have known for a very long time, and who always wore contacts, told me in advance that she would have to wear glasses for 6-8 weeks before Lasik. She showed up one day wearing gold metal frames, about 6.5 weeks before she had the surgery. Unfortunately for us at this site ("sight?") she is the poster girl for Lasik, telling everyone it's the best thing she's ever done (having 3 children notwithstanding).

Steve 12 Dec 2007, 15:55

I think it's somewhat ironic that people who you never see wearing glasses, then suddenly and unexpectedly show up bespectacled. The last time that they ever expect to need correction, (lasik notwithstanding) and they are revealed as glasses wearers.

Come to think of it, this makes me remember people who I saw wearing glasses for a short period and then, just as before the glasses were gone.

specs4ever 12 Dec 2007, 15:14

You have to wear glasses for a couple of weeks before the surgery. The longer the better, and this allows your eyes to get to their non contact lens prescription. Contact lenses do affect the prescription somewhat.

Jennifer 12 Dec 2007, 15:10

A coworker of mine has been seen wearing, for the first time since joining the company, very strong glasses. It immediately caught my attention as the frames look large and outdated. I don't know her well enough to suddenly strike up a conversation about her glasses. I did overhear her talking to someone about her pending "eye surgery." From the bits I picked up, she is going to get lasik. Does anyone know if before lasik, the patient cannot wear his/her contacts?

silverv 20 Jun 2007, 00:25

Specs4me. It seems to me if your optometrist thought it impossible to find someone to do this for you she would have said as much, at least it wasn't a flat out no from her. Have you considered confronting her with the question again? Does anyone else here have an answer for this? Does anyone else here have the desire to have implant surgery to become more myopic or hyperopic?

Specs4Me 19 Jun 2007, 11:58

Silverv - I did mention it to my friendly optometrist; however, she side stepped the question and didn't answer it.

silverv 19 Jun 2007, 07:17

Hey Specs4me, did you ever consider asking your cooperative optometrist who perscribed you the + lens and Glasses combination for your GOC their opinion of whether someone would do such a surgery? I personally would be interested in having this procedure. I don't know much about codes of ethics but I would think isn't it the doctor's job to make the patient happy.

Cactus Jack 13 Jun 2007, 16:18

curious,

Refractive surgery is surgery (lasik, implants, or other surgerical procedure) used to correct refractive errors such as myopia or hyperopia.

Cataract surgery is used to remove a clouded natural lens in the eye. Today, the natural lens is typically replaced with a plastic lens. The power of the lens is selected to provide the desired refractive power of the eye.

Specs4Me 12 Jun 2007, 14:38

Sally, I would certainly be interested if someone has. I wear +9.5 CLs perscribed by my Optom. and -9.25,-.75 glasses. I got her to start perscibing this for me because I work with computer hardware and my story was that this would allow me to see small parts and read small lettering by simply taking off my glasses, which is true. Started at +5 and worked up to +9.5 over several years. I wear the combo full time and love it.

Given the opportunity, I'd love to have implants so that I don't have to remove the contacts most nights. I do sleep with them occasionally and love to wake up to the blur.

If anyone knows of someone that will do this I'd certainly like to hear about it.

Sally 12 Jun 2007, 14:16

Has anyone heard of opthamologists agreeing to provide plus implants, so that one can wear minus glasses?

curious 12 Jun 2007, 11:35

what is refractive surgery ?im new to this

vanhouten 25 Nov 2006, 06:07

Hi,

After several years as a fulltime GOC wearer, I'm thinking of refractive surgery as a permanent solution.

I'm looking over the Internet for some eye clicnics where I could get Intraocular Lens Implantation whether in Europe or in Asia.

If someone know of any clinic, answer this post or drop me an e-mail to m.vanhouten@yahoo.com

Regards.

Katy 06 Sep 2006, 13:14

Thanks, Oscar & Cactus.. I am really surprised - I didn't expect people would have a choice about it - but it's good to hear!

oscar 05 Sep 2006, 16:56

that should have been "cataract" of course... apologies for the typo.

oscar 05 Sep 2006, 16:55

My grandfather had caract lens implants when they were relatively new in England. He had a strong myopic precription and was comfortable with it. On the advice of the eye doctor, the implants were as close a match as possible to his natural lenses and he had just a very small prescription change for his post-op glasses.

Cactus Jack 05 Sep 2006, 16:41

Katy,

Speaking from experience, the doctor made recomendations and let me choose.

It probably depends on the opthalmologist.

Katy 05 Sep 2006, 14:29

If you had a minus rx, had cataracts removed and lens implants put in, would you be allowed to keep your old rx? Say you were -7 and happy with that, would they insist on making you emmetropic after the surgery? I'm assuming they wouldn't let you increase your rx..

tortoise 04 Sep 2006, 19:30

Lentifan, no, the implants which go in front of the intact natural lens are usually minus and used to correct high myopia, although they are available in plus powers for hyperopia.

The other type is implanted in place of the natural lens which has been removed due to cataract. This kind must be nearly always plus.

lentifan 04 Sep 2006, 14:56

Thanks for these comments, Tortoise.

You seem to be implying that implants are normally plus, for use in correcting aphakia and hyperopia, and have an upper limit of about +25D.

I suppose an implant would be obvious to an optician carrying out a routine eye test?

tortoise 03 Sep 2006, 18:16

Lentifan, the lens implants for cataract surgery are put in after the very strong plus natural lens has been removed. Hypothetical example: if a +20 natural lens is removed and a +25 artificial lens implanted then you might need -7 or -8 glasses at most (just my guess).There is another kind of implant which goes in front of the natural lens and I have seen that they can correct up to +20D of hyperopia. That would produce a lot of myopia in an otherwise 20/20 eye.

lentifan 03 Sep 2006, 14:51

Has anyone out there actually had lens implants to increase their Rx, as an alternative to GOC? Or does anyone know someone who has?

Presumably thousands of lensectomies have been performed on cataract patients, so they are capable of correcting fair amounts of plus Rx, which is the same in principle as creating a minus Rx in a person with normal vision. But are there technical limits, or could someone with near normal vision achieve an Rx of, say,-45D or +25D through implants? And are they suitable for all eyes, or are there some patients for whom they are unsuitable for any reason?

27 Jun 2006, 20:15

Do you have any facts to back up your "lasik induced blindness"? Didn't think so.

Ballboy 26 Jun 2006, 10:28

To hell with all those who want to deprive us of glasses. Let them lasik themselves to blindness. Sooner or later they will "see" what they have lost through their stupidity. Seeing through glasses (however fogged up) is better than lasik-induced no sight at all.

Tim 20 Jun 2006, 18:13

Patrick, this was on one of the other threads yesterday. No-one knows what the long-term effects of this "treatment" might be - in another 20 - 30 years the US military might be physically as well as morally blind!

Patrick B 20 Jun 2006, 15:46

Everyone should check out today's NY Times. Long front-page article about the large numbers of US military academy students having corrective surgery. Most are opting for the surgery so they can become pilots leaving other positions, which are less visually demanding, unfilled

Plusheavy 11 May 2006, 01:40

From now on SOS will read "Save Our Spectacles". Who is Dr James McCulley to speak on behalf of "all of us", anyway?

Julian 10 May 2006, 23:03

Hmm. '"It's a huge evolutionary step," said Dr. James McCulley, professor and chairman of ophthalmology. "We all want a glasses-free and contact lens-free society and we are very rapidly moving toward that."'

Can you imagine anything worse?

Trent 10 May 2006, 19:05

New interocular lenses allow you to see near and far.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=10690

Guest 03 May 2006, 13:52

Paul

Interested to hear your story hope it goes well for you. What prescription was your 20/400 eye before surgery?

PaulL 03 May 2006, 07:20

Had 1-month post-op check today. All is well. Vision is about 20/20 in the left lasik'ed eye now, from 20/400. Dr said vision should now be stabilized. Have another check in 2 months.

I will consider doing the 20/60 right eye next year, although I will have to have reading glasses for closeup afterwards. I can read the computer screen fine though w/ the corrected eye. But as I get older reading glasses will be more required.

Me 11 Apr 2006, 05:09

Cedric, Julian

The short answer is yes. The long answer is lasik can only correct one or the other.

Julian 10 Apr 2006, 23:06

No - and if you're unlucky it won't eliminate your need for distance glasses either.

Cedric 10 Apr 2006, 21:49

Does lasik eliminate your need for reading glasses?

PaulL 10 Apr 2006, 13:49

I wanted to follow up on my previous post.

I just had Lasik done on my 20/400 left eye last Friday morning. All went well. I opted out of the valium-type soother they offer you pre-op. The procedure was painless and took all of about 5 minutes; less than 1 minute actually under the laser itself.

I felt I could have safely driven myself, since I didnt not take the sedative, but my wife was there for me.

Post-op now, I would say it feels like you were mildly poked in the eye. Not enough to warrant a pain reliever.

I went to a church dinner Friday night, a wedding most of the day Saturday, and church Sunday. No problems.

Drops are every 4 hours for now, and tears every 2 hours.

They estimated 20/25 would result. Today (Monday, day-3) I would say it is about there. Sharp vision starts at about 3 feet thru infinity. Near vision was not good in that eye to begin with.

My right eye is 20/60 and I have near vision up to about 12 inches close, then burred viision starts at about 3-4 feet.

So the 2 eyes will work together hopefully. However, with the left eye seeing sharp now, the right eye at 20/60 seems REALLY blurred. And that was my "good" eye.

All in all at day-3 I'd say it's good. I'll keep you posted as time goes on.

Lights at night have a slight halo at this point, but less of an aura than what I see with the 20/60 eye.

I am going to wait for a while before deciding about the other eye, perhaps a year. But this might work nicely as is.

Cost was $2400 USD.

nolasikforme 06 Apr 2006, 08:30

oops, sorry for the redundant post. I saw this mentioned in the Health & Healing forum of Craigslist and scurried over to post right away and didn't see my predecessor on Vision!

Julian 06 Apr 2006, 06:49

As I've just said on the Vision thread, fascinating that the doctor who developed it wears glasses.

nolasikforme 06 Apr 2006, 06:44

not to change the topic but, this doesnt sound like a good idea at all!

Do it yourself lasik at home:

http://www.lasikathome.com/index.html

Melyssa 18 Mar 2006, 10:28

My current RX is:

OD -8.25 +2.50 90

OS -9.00 +2.75 85

I also have an optional +1.50 add, for which I use half-readers to go with any of my regular glasses when I read in poor light.

17 Mar 2006, 09:35

Melyssa

What's your prescription?

PaulL 17 Mar 2006, 06:28

Clare, Well it's kind of hard to quantify. Beauty (sexy) is in the eye of the beholder. Pretty OO girl, slipping off he OOs, ... </fantasy>

ehpc 15 Mar 2006, 15:40

Clare. I keep telling you have it all...................blonde hair, minus lenses, black rectangular plastic frames with wide sides:) You can't have any more than that:)Pete

Clare 15 Mar 2006, 13:39

PaulL - for someone who is clearly not an 00, I'm interested in what you found sexy. Obviously wanting to have the same effect myself, can you explain what - I mean style, colour, frames?

PaulL 15 Mar 2006, 07:20

Hmmm. Interesting. Thanks for helping me understand.

I never really thot one way or the other about it, but yes, there are times when I see a beautiful woman in glasses that I think, "she is sexy in those glasses." Sort of mysterious. So I guess I understand.

Any other thots/feedback?

plusheavy 15 Mar 2006, 06:01

Paul L.,

you are right when you say that glasses may increase the attraction of persons who are already attractive. But there is more to it: glasses may make attractive people who are otherwise not attrative. This is what often happens to OO's (optics obssesive) - those who experience this "something" about glasses and other optical implements. It is all very subjective. Fetishism begins when, even in your imagination, you do not need the person but only his/her glasses to get excited.

Melyssa 15 Mar 2006, 04:49

Paul L,

I'm one of those people who love wearing glasses. I did not come close to feeling that way when I got my first pair at age 8, nor when I went fulltime at 16. But when I got my first pair of drop-temples at 28, they looked sooooooo sexy, and a lot of guys thought so, too. Since then I've purchased more drop-temples, cat's-eyes, oversized pairs; the 30 pairs currently in my prescription are all "big, bold, and beautiful" plastic frames. I can coordinate my clothing with my glasses.

Of course, they do help me see a LOT better than when I don't have them on; I cannot even read these words on the computer without glasses. I definitely must wear them to drive. Also, the large lenses and frames give me a much better view of the world around me.

And last but certainly not least, these gorgeous glasses got me a great guy for a husband. :)

Curt 14 Mar 2006, 13:42

PaulL: It is hard to put a finger on it. I am a science-type guy, and have always been fascinated by all things optical: glasses, microscopes, telescopes, lenses, lasers, prisms, holograms, etc. From a very early age, I was curious about glasses. Why do some people need them and others don't? Why do some need them to see far away and others to see up close? I was always interested in how a persons looks changed when they slipped on a pair of glasses. I have always been attracted to women who wear glasses. Glasses do not make someone attractive, but I think they make someone who I find attractive even more so.

Some of it is fetish, some of it is just curiousity. But I'm not sure anyone here on Eyescene can give you a definitive answer. It is like asking someone who likes chocolate why they like it...no easy answer.

Wei 14 Mar 2006, 12:49

Paul - a strange place to come to be surprised people like glasses. There many reasons they like glasses and they not "covering up" i think. I would like good vision and sometime consider implants. I think i wait until prodecure safer. Lasik pretty safe but not entirely like all surgery procedure. Research it. Most people here will not recomend 8-)!!

PaulL 14 Mar 2006, 12:05

I'm a newbie here b/c I am seriously considering Lasik in the near future.

I was surprised by those who say "I love wearing glasses." I'm thinking - are they covering up for HAVING to wear them all their lives and having poor vision? Are they just into the glasses-chic look? Or what?

Seriously, I've never heard or read anyone say that before. It's interesting. You LOVE wearing glasses? Why?

PaulL 14 Mar 2006, 12:00

Jay,

I'm sorry but I don't get the goal here. Is it just so you can "officially" be near-sighted and HAVE to "officially" wear glasses? I mean, why not just wear the glasses you require or even fake ones to have the glasses look?

Is it just a fetish thing? Help us understand.

Paul 22 Feb 2006, 21:16

Jay - $3800 seems like a very fair price. And having implanted lenses that could potentially be removed is a plus. It really is a lot of money to spend on something "optional", but if you're sure you want it...

Katy 22 Feb 2006, 03:24

Anyone who is thinking of Lasik should have a look at this - especially the 'colour atlas' bit - not while you're having your dinner though :-(

http://www.lasikdisaster.com/studies.htm

presbyopia_23 26 Jan 2006, 03:32

I wish I could trade my -4.5 myopic eyes for your plano? eyes then you can fullfill your GoC fantasty! I dont like being myopic, most people dont thats why lasik is so popular but theres a very few who actually looooooove glasses and want to be myopic to wear them full time

jay 22 Jan 2006, 09:59

just an update. i have received to date replies from 3 others who are keen in the surgery... just wondering if ther are any others?

Jay 19 Jan 2006, 20:49

the email is iwannabemyopic@gmail.com.

Alternatively, you can add me in msn messenger.

Dave 19 Jan 2006, 08:51

Jay,

Tried to send you an e-mail, but it was returned. Perhaps you could repost your address.

Jay 18 Jan 2006, 06:41

Just reposting thos hoping for responses.. apologies if i make myself a nuisance.

HI All,

I've been thinking for sometime now, and finally i mustered the courage to write in to a an eye centre regarding my weird request.

I've been using GOC almost fulltime and i wrote in to an established and renowned eye centre somewhere in Asia region to request for surgery to make me really nearsighted (i'm not giving the name of the eye centre yet in case some of you out there makes it a public thing and my plans gets thwarted.. ;)). My reason (which is true) was that like some people go go for plastic surgery, or sex change operation just to be who they want to be. Similarly, I have a strong desire to make myself nearsighted and it's a desire that i had since i was a child. In fact, I almost live like a nearsighted person with fulltime GOC, though it gets troublesome sometimes, esp when i have sleep in my lenses to keep up the act when i bunk in with friends.

I wasnt expecting an answer when i wrote in. At most i would probably get a sorry, we cannot accede to your request. But my wildest fantasy was fulfilled when i received a reply from the eye centre proposing i go with ICL from STAAR company. This is a form of lens implant which is reversible. The cost is a whopping USD3800 for both eyes including consultation and one overnight stay at the hospital. On top of that, I have to prepare to stay in the country for a week because, post surgery, there is still another follow-up in a week to ensure all is well.

Despite the cost, I am seriously considering going for the surgery.The possibly of finally not being a phony myope, but a real one is really too enticing for me. But I'm asking here if there will be anyone keen on this as well. I'm hoping I could negotiate for a better deal, as well as defray some cost if we can share the one week accomodation.

So if anone is keen, please drop me a mail at iwannabemyopic@gmail.com and we can see if we can work something out. BTW, I'm a 30 year old gay male - that's in case you are not comfortable in sharing rooms or gayphobic, or something.

jay 17 Jan 2006, 23:41

apologies for the earlier posts.. somethng is wrong with the link. Can try:

www.staar.com

click on professional > refractive > visian ICL -hyperopia and see the page.

jay... something is wrong with 17 Jan 2006, 23:39

17 Jan 2006, 23:17

I don't get it, according to <a href="http://www.staar.com/professional_products_refractive.php">http://www.staar.com/professional_products_refractive.php</a>, the ICL lens is only available in -3 to -15 powers... seems like the opposite of what you want?

Jay 17 Jan 2006, 19:19

further to my earlier post, in case anyone needs more info visit: http://www.staarag.com/index.php?sitecode=INTL.

the implants have powers up to +23...which means one can easily add at least -23D to the current prescription.

I'm thinking of making myself -13D from -3D.

Jay 17 Jan 2006, 09:17

HI All,

I've been thinking for sometime now, and finally i mustered the courage to write in to a an eye centre regarding my weird request.

Wei 29 Dec 2005, 05:10

What is intacs? Is implant contacts or laser?

presbyopia_23 12 Nov 2005, 03:38

thats why im much more keen on getting intacs in my eyes. Lots of benefits over lasik

LikeGlass 11 Nov 2005, 10:50

Don't know about implants, but there was a little piece I saw on DSC or DHC channel (can't remember which) about two months ago, which speculated on long term lasic problems. Here's what I can remember:

1) some complain about the odd feel of their eyes as if there is dirt in them. this may be caused by the change in shape of the cornea.

2) sometimes the surface does not heal flat causing an uncorrectable distortion.

3) some may think they have been 'cured' but if their vision changes find themselves back in glasses.

4) there are some concerns that the damage done to the cornea may promote cataracts later in life.

5) no evidence, but some doctors worry about macular degeneration (delayed onset) due to the amount of energy that hits the retina while the procedure is done.

Food for thought.

presbyopia_23 11 Nov 2005, 06:30

anyone have experience on lasik or intacs? I am thinking about intacs

Julian 05 Nov 2005, 07:44

Come on, Plusheavy, that post has been there a month.

plusheavy 05 Nov 2005, 04:52

How to keep the woodframes nut from spamming his nonsense?

Wei 05 Nov 2005, 04:08

I have interest in surgery of implant but consider with great concerns. I thnik is not decision to make with ease but in future will have implant i think of improvement of life. I happy now with mysodisc but think i future implant is consideration.

presbyopia_23 05 Nov 2005, 03:47

Just a bump. Seems like no one here is remotely interested in refractive surgury and its risks when you love glasses and wearing them

woodframes 07 Oct 2005, 21:35

Good day,

I am a maker of hand carved wooden glasses, each being specific in design and construction to the desires of the customer. I personally pick all my woods to ensure uniqueness and quality. If anyone is interested in a one in a kind pair of eyewear, feel free to contact me as we could discuss further the possibilities of custom wooden frames.

Scott Urban

8hhhhhhhh8@gmail.com

presbyopia_23 15 Jun 2005, 08:45

I take a neutral stance on lasik. While I wont get it myself, I support each individual's decision. Well some dont need lasik, others shouldnt get lasik, myself included. I have huge pupils, some presbyopia and my eyes arent very contact lense tolerant. I would be giving up some night vision, alot of near vision and may need eyedrops for who knows how long. Plus my 550 cornea would only be enough for one shot then ill have 300-320 left and dont want to go below this or risk ectasia. I do alot of near work and am on the computer alot so I dont need perfect vision and glasses are marely an inconvinence.

On the other hand those who are active with sports or outdoor activities may find glasses an obstacle or hurdle, much worse than an inconvinence. One lady I talked to says shes getting lasik in a few months because she does stuff like scuba dive and glasses dont fit in diving mask so she gets a blurry underwater view. She also does other activities, some where glasses can fall off and get lost or break so she must go without glasses. Also her glasses are -6 and -3.5 so this is a bit tricky seeing one image as slightly smaller than the other. She knows alot of people who got lasik with good results and shes next. I just wished her luck, shes probably the right person to get lasik. Lasik is right and works for some but others dont need lasik or shouldnt even get it! I *could* get lasik but I dont need it and theres tradeoffs in my case. Others are better candidates.

Thomas 03 Jun 2005, 11:15

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/entertainment/11797602.htm

Phil 04 Apr 2005, 02:32

Hi Clare, I'm -3.5 in one eye and -3.25 in the other. And I have a +2 add for reading. I have varifocals but hardly ever wear them at work: just crouch close to computer!

Clare 31 Mar 2005, 09:19

Hi Phil. What's your rx? I'm sorry, I can't remember. Anyway, there's no way I'd even consider lasik, the risks are too high and the inconvenience isn't great enough! My friend's husband had it a few years ago and he's very pleased. For me it's a bit like plastic surgery - the principle is great, but there's a risk it could all go horribly horribly wrong! I'm not prepared to try it.

Phil 31 Mar 2005, 00:27

Hi Clare! Are you a Lasik hater like me? We've got similar prescriptions and would probably do well under the laser. But it's anathema to me. And I hate thought of gwgs doing it. Why can't girls see that wearing specs makes them so much more gorgeous!

Mandy 29 Mar 2005, 10:15

Ardief-

Your friends astigmatism could be part of the problem, but usually isn't a reason they can't do surgery anymore (due to recent technological advances). High myopes tend to have very thin corneas (outer layer of the eye where they do the operation). The idea of lasik is to reshape the cornea to change refraction. If the corena is thin there is no excess to shave off during surgery, additionally, at -10, there is a lot of cornea to shave away. Your friend would be left cornealess... and that would be bad. They could probably do the surgery and knock around 6 diopters off, but then she is still left at a -4 and still wearing glasses full time.

daisy 28 Mar 2005, 14:45

Lasik does not work for everyone. One of my close friends had it done and his vision is worse than before. He really regrets having it done. So think twice before you go under that tiny knife. Also my cousin had the RK surgery years ago. It worked for a while but now she is having trouble at near and far.

Clare 28 Mar 2005, 09:51

I think the astigmatism is the key. A friend of a friend of mine was prepared to go with lasik and her prescription would be no more than -4, but she was told that they wouldn't do it because she'd still be no better off because of her astigmatism and would still have to wear glasses fulltime.

Luke 28 Mar 2005, 09:00

It depends how much astigmatism there is, but I would suspect there is probably some other reason involved. Did the doctors not tell her why she isn't a candidate? I'm pretty sure I'm aware of patients at -10 and higher who have had refractive surgery (though at these higher prescriptions the outcome of the procedure is often not as good, "objectively", even though these patients are supposedly often the happiest afterward). There should be other options if not laser surgery, I would think, but they might still be in testing.

Ardief 27 Mar 2005, 19:32

A friend of mine was recently told, sfter examinations from two different doctors, that she doesn't qualify for Lasik surgery. She is approximately -10 in both eyes with significant astigmatism. Would these factors, either separately or in combination, disqualfy her or were there possibly other considerations? I know that initially the FDA would not authorize refractive correction for this level of myopia but that was some years ago amd I was under the impression that this was no longer the case.

Needless to say, she is pretty "bummed". Anybody got any words of encouragement I can pass on?

Wayne_D 17 Feb 2005, 09:54

Anyone considering eye surgery for vision correction should first read the

many horror stories on www.surgicaleyes.org. They are posted on the bulletin board link. People have had their eyes

permanently damaged, some with longterm pain. Most of the damage appears not correctible.

mary 17 Feb 2005, 00:06

Have you ever met a person after they had gotten LASIK? I found out that someone I've known for 3 years got LASIK 4 years ago and it changes my whole perception of the person. Is that weird? Just picturing this person living her whole life nearsighted before makes me wonder how a visual impairment can change someone's life. Ok, that's all, I don't usually think this deep.

LikeGlass 01 Aug 2004, 12:04

Real food for thought.....

Watched a new show on Discovery Health Channel called "Dr. G Medical Examiner." It's a real life show that explores how people die (she is a coroner.) One woman was found dead a the bottom of a concrete stairwell. The police wanted a ruling as to if she had been assaulted / pushed, or if she just fell, and why. An autopsy of the brain revealed the head was in motion and stopped. (Impact with step, as compared to hit with something.) This was not enough as she may have been pushed. Further research was done and the death was ruled "Complications of failed laser eye surgery." (not kidding) Seams she had a botched laser job that had wrecked her vision and she was unable to properly locate the steps, thus the botch job was considered the initiating cause of death. As I said, food for thought...

JC 09 May 2004, 03:35

Are there any known lasik surgens that will do Lasik Induced Myopia?

------------------------

From "Induced Myopia" thread

[quote]

Stan 19 Oct 2002, 08:37

Insurance companies generally consider this cosmetic surgery and I do too. If we could just get a laser surgeon to agree with that, he should have no problems performing surgery to increase myopia.

[/quote]

Sandy 21 Mar 2004, 22:17

Marc, I am surprised at that prescription, that you don't keep a spare pair nearby. It must have been frightening to have your specs knocked off. At least you were able to find them with some help afterwards. Also, at least your glasses weren't broken. Take care.

Marc 21 Mar 2004, 13:02

I wonder if anyone else has had serious thought of surgery to correct their vision or just improve it a little to reduce your dependence. I have -14.00 glasses and am helpless without them in dark lighting. I was in a bar one night in a strange town just killing time while watching a game. An argument broke out, which I had no part of, and I ended up getting hit with a beer glass. I was uninjured as the glass just grazed me but my glasses were knocked off. I tried to find them but ended up getting help from the waitress only after things settled down. To be honest I was a little scared since I could not see what was happening around me. I wonder how pathetic I looked feeling along the floor. Although the frames were bent, I could still see after some carefull adjustments. I wonder how pathetic I looked feeling along the floor. Sometimes I think about the surgery just for the safety it could provide. People don't understand how blind a high myope really is.

Progressives 17 Feb 2004, 00:10

I have a guess that the "alarm clock" comment is an example of feeling helpless and frustrated without their glasses. "Having to grope for your glasses" may sound like a cliche even though in real life I know some people who get truly upset when that happens to them.

Alan 16 Feb 2004, 12:58

Wow -- Electra, that's a horrendous story. -5 to -2, with lots of pain.

So, I don't really know how common outcomes like that are, but I do know several people at my workplace who have had it done. I'd say about 8 people. One had some complications and had to go back in (I think the trouble might have been with the flap not re-adhering), but seems to be fine now. One complained of some scratchiness or mild discomfort; he didn't indicate it was terrible, but he had mixed feelings about having had the procedure done. The others were very, very positive.

But the most common exclamation they make is "I can see the alarm clock when I wake up in the morning." So, I think anyone interested in the procedure needs to think about how much they REALLY care about seeing the alarm clock when they wake up in the morning, then think about whether occasionally sleeping in some extended wear contact lenses might provide the desired effect, and only then really go for LASIK.

So, for what it's worth, I haven't talked to anyone who had it done and said "stay clear of LASIK". But it hasn't gone great for everyone I've talked to, and the motivations for doing it seem questionable to me. For some people, it might make sense.

Electra 16 Feb 2004, 11:48

No, this is just info I've gathered. To be honest I've only ever actually physically met one person who had the surgery done. She had problems. So I could honestly say everyone I've ever know who had it done had problems, but that wouldn't be fair! She had a lot of pain, and I mean a lot. They had to drug her senseless to control it. And it didn't work anyway, she went from -5 to -2. Big deal.

Greg 15 Feb 2004, 08:29

Electra--Thanks for your informative post about LASIK and the connection to your site. I have been considering LASIK Custom Vue but am still aprehensive about the risks. I have -4 +2 progressive glasses and am now wearing RGP contacts which give me the best correction. Unfortunately, I cannot wear the contacts for much more than 12 hours a day. I take it you had LASIK and have experienced problems. How long ago did you have the surgery and what was your Rx then. What problems do you have now? Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experience with the rest of us.

Electra 15 Feb 2004, 07:45

Glasses Luva, I think it's because they hear about the risks. I've been studying it carefully out of curiosity and I think it's just too risky. Even the FDA says so. I've put up some stuff about this on my website actually, because it bothers me that people are going into a procedure without the full information about the risks.

http://www.geocities.com/electra_the_migfetish_lady/lasikdangers.html

Glasses Luva 06 Feb 2004, 08:38

Phoroptor- I too was really skeptical when I read that statistic, but I felt optomistic about less women throwing away their glasses at the same time. Do you have any statistics that contradicts that article?

I am just always surprised that more people don't opt for LASIK, as I know that most people who require vision correction, don't hold the same views as many of us at Eye Scene. Is it fear? Is it cost? I get very optomistic that LASIK may not be all that it is cracked up to be, when I still see a decent number of people like celebrities who can obviously afford to have the procedure, but don't elect to have it. Also, I am surprised to see so many medical doctors in all fields of medicine who still wear glasses.

Alan 06 Feb 2004, 05:12

You can link to this page from the page Glasses Luva posted:

http://www.womenfitness.net/beauty/hair/hairstyles.htm

It has a bunch of small pictures of very beautiful women wearing glasses. No Rx in any of them, sadly...

Phoroptor 05 Feb 2004, 19:07

Glasses Luva:

Don't believe everything you read.

Glasses Luva 05 Feb 2004, 17:20

Interesting article about Lasik. I did not realize that only about half the people who opt for Lasik have 20/20 vision in six months. Here's the link

http://www.womenfitness.net/beauty/eye/lasik.htm

The original Emily 28 Dec 2003, 13:40

Alan,

Although I haven't read this whole thread yet, I'd just like to add something. The snellen eye chart does not measure the quality of vision ...so the stats may state that 98% of people have 20/x vision, but that does NOT mean that their vision is good. There are many people who have had severe complications after lasik ...including those who have had to undergo full corneal transplants. Amazingly enough, many of the people who have had horrible outcomes are still considered a "success" ...hmmm ...sounds a bit fishy, no? To be perfectly honest I wouldn't trust ANY lasik surgeon regardless of his reputation. They lost my respect a long time ago.

Lore 13 Dec 2003, 08:22

Always watch where your info comes from. The Wellish.com site is actually the site of a doctor who performs laser eye surgery and who apparently wants people to choose him over other, incompetant doctors. He claims that "Depending on your prescription, Dr. Wellish can determine the likelihood of reaching 20/40 or better vision. To date, though, over 70% of our patients reach 20/20 or better vision, and 95-99% of our patients reach 20/40 or better vision with refractive surgery procedures." That is consistent with other finds on refractive surgery and not the absurd 40% number. The site FAQ also states that there has never been a reported case of blindness from surgery performed by a trained, qualified surgeon.

This doctor wants people to choose him over other surgeons. The operation seems rather scuzzy to me and I wouldn't trust his assessment of his competitors.

Anyway, once again, I haven't gotten LASIK and have no plans to get it, but I certainly wouldn't try to talk anyone out of it with false or misleading information. The general statistics do seem to indicate that the vast majority of those who get LASIK can see 20/20 after surgery and that only a very small percentage can't see 20/40 or better.

Alan 12 Dec 2003, 06:47

guest -- I'm not a cheerleader for Lasik, but I do think that "a 60% chance of poor vision or no vision" really overstates the case. As far as I know, there is virtually no chance of losing all vision from Lasik. And "poor vision" is relative. Statistics I've seen report something like 98% chance of at least 20/40 vision. OK, in my mind that's poor. But that's good enough for some people, particularly those who want very badly to get rid of glasses. I actually thought the rate of 20/20 was higher than 40%, but in any case it is decreased by the fact that Lasik is more attractive to people with stronger prescriptions - yet these are the people who are less likely to get to 20/20. People should know that Lasik isn't perfect, but I hope this story doesn't distort the facts too much.

guest 11 Dec 2003, 15:33

Andy

That was one very imformative video;only 40 percent actually end up with 20/20,that means there's a 60 percent chance of poor vision or no vision! Definately scary!

Andy 10 Dec 2003, 23:58

Here's a link to a critical survey about LASIK. http://www.wellish.com/laservisioncorrection/framebottom/newscoverage.html

It's a 10 minute video in the real player format, but worth the time to dowload it.

Bowser 27 Sep 2003, 21:02

My sister-in-law just had lasik surgery done yesterdy here in the U.S. She was quite myopic (20/800). I don't think she did much research before diving into it. So far so good, but she did say that it was more painful than she expected. I wished her well but frankly I will take my prescription with me to my grave, and that should be at least another 40 years.

Bowser..

Loonyettes 26 May 2003, 09:46

Hallelujah! Great news for those of you trying to persuade your favourite glasses wearer from having LASIK. I saw this on the BBC News site today:

Negligence claims involving laser eye surgery against doctors belonging to the Medical Defence Union (MDU) have more than doubled in the last six years.

The MDU, which is the largest insurer for UK doctors, said that while some of the claims were over faulty surgery many more centred on patients' "unrealistic expectations" about what could be achieved.

The figures, released by the union on Monday, show that claims over laser eye surgery have increased by 166% in six years, and now account for a third of all ophthalmology claims.

The MDU has increased its subscription rates for laser eye surgeons and advised them how to minimise the risk of a claim.

About 100,000 people who are tired of wearing glasses or contact lenses undergo corrective laser eye surgery in the UK every year.

The procedure, which was introduced in the early 90s, can cost thousands of pounds.

Failure rate

In February, consumer experts warned that patients undergoing laser eye surgery were not being told about the risks they could be taking with their sight.

The investigation by Health Which? also revealed any doctor could carry out the treatment after just a few days of training - no specialist qualifications were needed.

The magazine also found complication rates varied between surgeons and clinics.

Earlier this month, the medical journal Ophthalmology said the failure rate for eye surgery was one in 10, not the one in 1,000 figure widely advertised.

Rebecca Petris is one patient who found surgery did not fix her vision.

She told BBC News: "I can no longer drive. I've difficulty reading at most distances.

"I've severe double vision. My night vision is just about gone.

"It's very difficult to see in dim light or dark circumstances."

Dr Christine Tomkins, of the MDU, said: "Patients need to understand what the risks are.

"And they need to think about whether or not the benefits they think they will get from the procedure actually outweigh the risks, in order to decide whether they want to go ahead with it."

If the surgeon tells the patients they will have perfect vision afterwards and they will throw away their glasses, that raises unduly high expectations

David Gartry

Laser eye surgeon

In very rare cases, complications can lead to corneal ectasia, where fluid pressure builds up on the eye.

Patients can need a corneal transplant to correct the condition.

Other complications, though deemed "minor" by clinics, occur "relatively frequently", according to a recent review by the American Academy of Ophthalmology.

Patients can experience dry eyes or night vision problems, which can affect ability to drive or work in the evening or in dim light.

Eye surgeon David Gartry said the risks need to be put into perspective.

"You can see that something serious happening would be very rare indeed," he said.

"But if the surgeon tells the patients they will have perfect vision afterwards and they will throw away their glasses, that raises unduly high expectations."

The MDU is advising surgeons that patients must have enough time to ask questions and absorb information before making a decision to go ahead with the procedure.

Christy 30 Sep 2002, 13:48

I've read enough of the Lasik horror stories to conclude it just isn't worth anyone taking the risk. Of course - I'm not interested in it anyway. Even if it was 100% safe and effective - it would leave me without glasses - which would be more than I could bear!

The OGL 30 Sep 2002, 12:31

The pathological concerns are apparently limited at this time, there's a less than 5% permanent type problem according to the literature I've seen. And, the jury is out, only time will tell and who knows, there may be no long term problems...and again, there may. I came across an article in a 1995 Review Of Optometry about the problems with PRK, and as you know, that's all but discontinued. TWGO told me some absolute horror stories about patients crying in his exam chair over their long term and permanent problems following the original RK, so who knows? But again, if contacts and/or glasses work, and if you either need a slight distance enhancement while young or a reading correction when you become presbyopic, why risk it. When I ask customers, the most often repeated (and IMHO dumbest) reply is "now I can see the alarm clock in the morning". My fellow travelers, I don't want to see or HEAR that damn thing in the morning!

Clare 30 Sep 2002, 11:47

I find Lasik a scary prospect because it's so permanent. Yet the two (okay, it's not many) people that I know are both delighted. The first had his op in January. Are they storing up trouble for the future? The OGL what have you seen?

The OGL 30 Sep 2002, 08:22

A resounding "no"! Go down to my post of 29 August. When a doc won't have it, I'm a'gin it. And then add all the people I've fitted with glasses post surgery.........

Christy 30 Sep 2002, 08:11

OGL - I'll take that as a 'no' vote for Lasik!

The OGL 30 Sep 2002, 07:49

Portia: it's not Southern California, although that would not be a bad assumption given the breakfast cereal (flakes and nuts) demographics of that area. It was in again yesterday, and it's a 4 page, full color, full size insert that probably goes in every newspaper from New Orleans around the gulf coast. They only put in a telephone number and an address in our local small city, the paper itself is from Mobile, Alabama. I read it closer yesterday and really retched. "90 days same as cash financing, do it now, offer for limited time only", etc. just plain schlock. They also put in "a wholly owned American eye care company" so it's got to be a lasik franchise type operation. And what's wild, in the same flyer they also advertise a bottom end retail chain glasses operation, thereby implying "come let us cut you, but since it won't work perfect and both of us know it we'll sell you some glasses too, cheap!". And here's another thing that gets my cork: our TV comes out of Mobile also, and there's a bunch of do gooder docs over there that are paying the money to advertise on TV that they have a charitable foundation to provide lasik for those who can't afford it. Now, I've been involved in both domestic and foreign missions through TWGO for over 20 years, and truly believe in the glasses recycling programs so that people can lead normal lives, but lasik? It's another way of getting people in their doors for paying lasik. How about LA*SUCKS? And, you mention I-95 in Florida. Well, while I have a FL address my little optical business Cee 'eM Optics is in Alabama, just minutes away, and you won't get me south of I-10 which is where the land of geezers and bluehairs begins. Especially since my ex-wife is in Ft. Lauderdale...........

The OGL 30 Sep 2002, 06:29

Being a +50 (in age, that is) I can speak from personal as well as professional experience. A hell of a lot of us wear CL's, but most of them are original wearers from way back that just don't want to give up. Usually they are myopes, and will go to monovision or at the very worst use readers over their CL's. I think the rarer thing is people like me that never wore a distance correction (except GOC of course) that finally needed a slight presbyopic plus at distance as well as the inevitable higher pluse for near. Most of those folks opt for the progressives in spex.

Alan 29 Sep 2002, 19:58

Clare - interesting question about your boss. I kind of wonder how many people age 50+ wear contacts. Generally, I don't know who wears contacts and who doesn't, unless they sometimes wear glasses. When I was in high school, I think most of the contact lens wearers were anonymous, as they NEVER wore glasses. I sort of assume that older people wouldn't opt for contacts...but I don't have any real evidence.

But I do think vanity affects people of all ages. It seems like most public figures try mightily to avoid being seen in glasses. I believe ALL Presidents of the US have worn glasses, for example, yet only a couple were frequently seen wearing specs.

Clare 29 Sep 2002, 11:24

Alan, I think its safe to say that to host a function at the House of Lords you definately need connections! I was the lucky guest of a company whose founder just happens to be a Liberal peer. They obviously make sure that they make the most of the kudos!! It was a great evening.

Sightings? I'm not that hot on them. But let me think, I was with two speccy male colleagues - one I've mentioned before, average height, dark, pleasant looking, black frames, needs a frame update! The other, swarthy complexion, European looking, dashing Gucci semi-rimless frames and *very* shortsighted, I'm no expert but I'm guessing > -6, they're *very* thick. And my old boss, mid-late 50s must've been wearing contact lenses because there were no sign of his glasses and he saw me when I spoke to him!! Isn't it weird that someone of that age would go for contacts, they must make him hugely hyperopic.

Alan 29 Sep 2002, 06:08

Clare, being invited to a function at the House of Lords sounds like a big deal...is it as rare as it sounds to me?

More on topic -- any interesting sitings, besides the non-sitings (lasik victims)?

Clare 27 Sep 2002, 22:33

Portia - the £1,700 may be premium price, Moorfields is London's premier eye hospital. I'm sure anyone who was mad enough to consider Lasik would have to be prepared to spend £1,000 or so. The many newspaper ads advertising it often say from £500 per eye.

You're right, no NHS funding either!

Portia 27 Sep 2002, 21:20

Clare, 1700 pounds for LASIK is real money. Is it so popular in England at such prices? I am assuming the national health doesn't pay for it.

$299. an eye is an ad I have not seen in NYC. Must be Southern California, where the bargain liposuction and nose job guys, along with the Lasik mills, advertise in the small display ads in the local newspapers.

Laugh*A*Lot 27 Sep 2002, 12:33

WHY DO YOU THINK THEY CALL IT *LAY SICK*?

The OGL 27 Sep 2002, 07:01

Lasik makes me want to puke. Picked up the Sunday paper this week, one schlock house is offering it for $299 per eye "for a limited time only".

Clare 26 Sep 2002, 23:12

I was invited to a very nice reception at The House of Lords last night. It was a glorious evening on the terrace alongside The Thames and great to see some colleagues from my previous job. Surprise, surprise, one of my former colleagues' husband had had Lasik at Moorfields Eye Hospital in London. He's delighted and is the second person I know to have the op at Moorfields for £1700. The other person is older, around 50, and I wonder how long it'll be before he's troubled by the opposite effects of myopia.

The OGL 29 Aug 2002, 18:26

A while ago I was waiting in line to register for a continuing education class at Vision Expo, and struck up a conversation with the VERY attractive slender dark haired non-GWG in line ahead of me. Turns out she was an optometrist so I boldly asked her if she needed a correction herself and if so, had considered Lasik. Her answer, with a nice smile, was "I'm a minus 6.00 sphere OU and my corneas are already to thin, I don't need them any thinner. I wear daily disposable which I keep on my nightstand as discard just before I fall asleep. They're easy, comfortable, convenient, and of course the price is right". Of course it was right, she obviously got freebies from her supplier!

Christy 28 Aug 2002, 14:36

OGL - I had a look at the guy's website and he is obviously very bitter about his Lasik experience. I hit a few links and read story after story of Lasik disasters - some of the people writing them are suicidal with despair. It gives me the creeps that society at large isn't being told the full story. I see the slick Lasik ads everywhere - but the moment I hear anyone mention the process - I go in for the kill! It's not just because I love wearing glasses and like to see other people wearing them - it's that I really do think it's awful that so many people end up totally ruining their eyesight and their lives while parting with so much cash for the process.

The OGL 28 Aug 2002, 07:13

Neeless to say, an OGL doesn't like lasik, but not only for personal reasons also for professional ones. On a daily basis, we fit post-lasiks with either a low minus for driving and movies or a plus for the presbyopes. In one case, a fairly strong plus for distance with a strong reading add, not any different from anyone else her age. There was a brief note in this month's issue of Contact Lens Spectrum mag about an angry post-lasik who hired an airplane to pull a banner bashing lasik.His website is www.lasiksos.com and he links to some other sites for people with bad experiences.

Alan 08 Jul 2002, 20:08

Andrea,

I don't think it's possible to answer your questions very meaningfully. I think most people start needing reading glasses between their late 30's and late 40's, though a good chunk of the population falls outside that range. If you strain to read print that you think should be fairly easy to read, then you might be pretty close to needing some reading glasses. Hopefully you won't really ever need correction for your distance vision.

Andrea 07 Jul 2002, 15:14

Alan, thank you for the useful information. I'm glad that you aren't too concerned about the long term effects of refractive surgery. Rather, I think your questions about its immediate results is more on the mark.

I'm not sure, but it seems like there is less hype about lasik than a few years ago, and lots of people are perfectly happy, if not in glasses, then certainly in contact lenses. For me, yes, there was some stigma associated with glasses, but if my prescription were milder then it was, and maybe if I had started as an adult rather than in childhood, I'd probably have been ok alternating between lenses and glasses. There's a big difference between say -1 or -2 and -5 or -6. Yes, glasses can look good, but at least for me, only in weak lenses!

Thank you so much for explaining about the vision changes I can expect. My only question would be when I can expect the reading difficulty and any distance changes to occur. In other words how many lens-free years do I have left? I already find that looking at small print can be a little straining.

Alan 03 Jul 2002, 07:08

I'm not actually concerned about the long term outcome of lasik -- refractive surgeries have been done for decades, and I think (though without certainty of course) that the long term effects will be similar or milder for lasik.

I'm concerned about the effects that seem to be both short AND long term. If vision isn't too good afterward, then it doesn't seem like a good idea for me (someone who really likes good vision, and has it at this point).

Don 03 Jul 2002, 03:55

Andrea,

It seems as if you had to do it all over again, that you would not have done lasik. The reason most folks on this thread are cautious about lasik is that we know the risks, and most of us enjoy glasses.

Until they can prove long term results---at least 10-15 years---most of us will remain skeptical and cautious of the long term effect of lasik.

I don't want someone fooling with my eyes if there are going to be imperfections. Period.

Alan 03 Jul 2002, 00:04

Andrea

Anyway, about presbyopia and the future of your vision -- it varies somewhat from person to person. You probably won't "need" glasses for distance, but at some point they might help a bit. For reading, you'll definitely need them -- at first, you'll be able to read things but only with some strain. It seems to get to the point where you aren't able to read small or medium print at all really without reading glasses. You might find at some point that you want some progressive bifocals -- but you probably won't have to wear them all the time. Some people's distance prescription does change in their 30's and 40's, though, so that's always a possibility.

It's too bad you felt a stigma of glasses was a significant factor. I've become convinced that well-chosen glasses are seen as perfectly attractive, not only by eyescene people, but by most people all over.

I really wish there were a comprehensive survey of people who have had lasik done. It would sure be useful to people considering it to have real information available about what actual patients have to say about it. The cover-your-butt stuff doctors say is easy to dismiss, and the marketing language (Freedom From Glasses!!!!) is obviously as rosy as can be. But what do people really think? Just surveying my friends isn't going to give me a very good sampling. Anyway, thanks for sharing your story....even if you are preaching to the choir here (not many on Eyescene are lasik fans, to say the least).

Take care,

Alan

Andrea 02 Jul 2002, 22:56

Thank you for the fair-minded response. What you are saying is exactly my caution to anyone considering lasik--that you have to be willing to accept vision that may be slightly off.

My motivation was convenience. RGPs provide fantastic vision and are healthy and safe for the eyes. It's just that you have to take them in and out every day and it's easy for dust and sand to get in. When that happened it was sometimes rather painful.

I think that if someone has a relatively mild prescription, I would strongly advise against the surgery. I'm sure that if I had had a mild prescription I would have been happy in either glasses or contacts for certain instances. It's just those strong glasses I didn't like. If someone has a moderate to strong prescription, even then, I think some sort of implantable lens would be a smarter and safer option than lasik. And contact lenses are proven to be safe--so that's the best choice. You just have to be willing to wear those thick glasses at night.

I think that some clarity on the part of doctors warning about quality of vision with lasik compared with lenses is necessary. In my case I dealt mostly with an optometrist (the surgeon only did the actual surgery) who seemed to be more concerned with the convenience factor than with quality of vision. Also, in the area in which I live there seems to be more of a 'nerd' stereotype associated with glasses, perhaps. I am in Southern California, and it seems like when I travel to New York or European cities, I see more glasses--they are more socially acceptable.

I simply did not consider the possible imperfections of lasik. It was perhaps buried in all the paperwork and orientation (cannot remember) but I did not think much about it.

Obviously people who dread glasses at all cost would not care as much about this stuff, and should be the primary market for lasik.

As for me, I'm fine now, but I just wonder how long it will be before I really need glasses for farsightedness and how it will progress or change. For example would they be just for reading or for some distance as well? Does it mean you can read but just not comfortably or that things are a total blur? Presbyopia? When should I expect that to appear? Whatever happens, I think I'm staying away from any more surgery unless it's for a medical reason.

Alan 30 Jun 2002, 19:32

Andrea,

From what I've read and heard, it is pretty unlikely (though possible) that you would revert to nearsightedness. It is more likely that your farsightedness would increase. Most likely, though, it will stay pretty stable. You may eventually notice it more -- as presbyopia becomes worse, your eyes will have a tougher time adjusting for the slight farsightedness.

Wurm is right -- LASIK is really good for people who will be happy having uncorrected vision that is OK, if not perfect. You had great vision with RGP's, as many people do, and it was fairly likely that you wouldn't be able to match that, uncorrected, after lasik.

Anyway -- what was your motivation for having it done? What were your expectations? Do you feel you were misled by your doctors, or do you feel that you just got unlucky -- I mean, a lot of people who have lasik done report no vision problems afterward and no discomfort after a period of time -- were you just hoping/expecting to be one of these people? Would you advise everyone against it now, or just some people? Who?

Thanks a lot. I hope things work out for you, and that you can make the most of it -- after all, you now have MUCH better uncorrected vision than you did before.

Alan

Wurm 30 Jun 2002, 17:48

The 'homework' comment was a bit harsh, but it resonates with a truth that some of the surgery providers have ignored in assessing and informing prospective patients: a person who displays a significant element of perfectionism regarding their corrected acuity is a poor candidate.

Many people don't fall into that category (they couldn't care less about a little blur, some night halos or the occasional need for reading glasses). But many others are picky about the 'end result' in exactly that way.

Personally I know an imperfect 'near miss' outcome would drive me nuts... just based on the inordinate amount of time I spent adjusting my new bifocals for optimum vision and comfort.

Andrea 30 Jun 2002, 13:47

My prescription before was about -5 in each eye with minimal astigmatism.

I said 'corrected vision before'--not 'corrected vision now'. In other words my vision before surgery with rigid gas permeable contact lenses was slightly better than now, and there's some slight discomfort post-lasik.

For example, I just spent a little while reading some fine print from my credit card company. When looking up I noticed some bluriness and then some difficulty refocusing on the statement. And now I have a headache.

Based on what I say, is it more likely that I revert to nearsightedness, or that the farsightedness will stay or become more noticeable? My procedure was a couple of years ago.

As for not doing my homework, well, that's a presumptuous thing to say.

Alan 30 Jun 2002, 07:31

Andrea,

It's more likely that you will become more farsighted than nearsighted, given your age, but most likely your vision will remain stable. You'll just need reading glasses more as you get older.

What was your prescription before?

And what do you mean by "your corrected vision now" -- you really shouldn't need correction to see at a distance with that prescription.

Why do you regret having the procedure done? This sounds like a pretty normal and "successful" outcome for lasik.

Alan

Don 30 Jun 2002, 04:54

Andrea,

You obviously didn't do your homework before getting lasik.

What you have is common, I'm told, and the long term effects have yet to be determined, as the procedure is only a few years old.

Good luck.

Andrea 29 Jun 2002, 18:29

I decided to take the lasik plunge and of course instead of being nearsighted I am now a little farsighted.

(+0.50 & +0.75)

Well, it is fair to say i regret having had lasik, because my corrected vision before was better than what it is now--although I really don't notice any bluriness. Just some strain and a need for better light when reading.

Any idea of how my vision will change over time? Is it possible that the farsightedness will increase, or is it more likely that I become nearisghted again...? I'm 33 by the way.

Portia 16 May 2002, 22:57

I am not a candidate of LASIK, but it strikes me that those who have undergone the surgery are not terribly particular about where they end up.

Almost any king of improvement must look great, initially, to a serious myope.

The sharp, accurate vision they got with well-prescribed glasses must be a thing of the past.

Is a 75% improvement in vision really worth the aggravation?

LikeGlass 16 May 2002, 12:45

Ahhh... still not to happy about this lasik thing. Besides the loss of GWGs, there are some real things to be concerned about, ESP having just talked to a friend who had it done about a year ago. In most cases, vision can be brought close to so-called 20/20, but this vision will never be as clear as the corrected vision was before surgery. The reason for this is that the cornea does not heal flat, but ends up with a bumpy surface instead. This produces an error that can not be worked out. To some, this is perfectly acceptable, but if you are a perfectionist, DONT GET IT! The other concern is, What happens 20 years down the line? This is, after all, a wound. Will this increase your chances of getting cataracts? No one knows for sure! If you are on the fence about all this, get off of it and revisit the subject 2 or 3 years from now, when minds are a little cooler and sales pitches a little calmer.

CK Specs 15 May 2002, 11:14

Thanks Alan;

My pre-lasik prescription was about -3.75 in my left eye and -3.50 in my right eye with an astigmatism that I can't fully remember. So I was moderately myopic and wore glasses or contacts all the time.

Craig

Alan 15 May 2002, 09:45

CK Specs,

I think you're right -- it seems unlikely that you're getting more nearsighted, if -.25 doesn't help and you can read the 20/20 line. But you could have astigmatism, or some other ocular problem that affects your vision slightly.

But really -- just relax and make the most of your good vision. What was your prescription before you had lasik?

Alan

CK Specs 14 May 2002, 18:05

Hi All;

This is my first post but the conversations seem pretty interesting. I had lasik in April 2000 and I can see fine but I think the worse part is psychological. I can read the 20/20 and some of the 20/15 lines on an eyechart but in my mind I think my vision is regressing.

Here's a question, I looked through -.25 lenses today and they did virtually nothing for my vision. If I really had regression of my distance vision, wouldn't I have seen better with the -0.25 lenses? And if my vision was bad enough that I needed -.50 or stronger to see then I don't think I would be able to read the 20/20 line on the chart?

Ah yes, the games we can play in our minds.

Take care all,

Craig

Christy 19 Apr 2002, 14:15

Yeah Tammy - don't have anything to do with it!

Tammy 19 Apr 2002, 13:26

Yesterday, my mom asked me if they had the surgery to correct astigmatism if i would like to save up my money so that i could get it. I told her no i would not like to do that.

Bobby 18 Apr 2002, 12:54

I agree with Curt for 99%

The remaining 1% is based on my information about Russia. Anything but normal everyday goods and services is paid in... yes ... american dollars. Ukraine is the same case. US conquered the former Soviet Union without their soldiers having to go to Moscow. WOW!

Curt 18 Apr 2002, 11:56

Christy: Everything that you said it true...but I hope (and I mean sincerely hope) that there is a huge difference between scam artists and "doctors", whatever branch of medicine they are in. The first premise of the Hippocratic oath is "First, do no harm..." When there is even a chance that LASIK can go wrong and cause a permanent eye injury, it simply should not be done. These "doctors" are bowing to the power of the almighty dollar (pound, yen, ruble, etc.)

glassez luva 16 Apr 2002, 18:57

Christy,

I hope to marry a woman who thinks as you do.

Christy 07 Apr 2002, 03:44

The world is full of gullible people. Think about it - there are people who willingly respond to the "Nigerian Email Scam" promising millions of £££s if they'll just pop a few thousand £££s in a bank account. The money in the account - surprise surprise - mysteriously vanishes and the promised millions never show up!

Lasik surgeons employ salesmen to prey on gullible people - promising more than they can deliver - and tying them down with contracts that leave them nowhere to turn when it all goes wrong.

Of course - from my point of view - the ultimate downside of Lasik is that when it's successful - you don't get to wear glasses any more! That would leave me feeling very cheated indeed!

Alan 03 Apr 2002, 13:07

Jules,

Are intraocular lens implanting procedures actually safer than lasik? That surprises me. I do think lasik is quicker and cheaper to perform -- it's very fast.

Why do people do it? So, knowing that some people really don't like wearing glasses, and either can't or do not like wearing contacts, it seems clear that people would be interested.

I guess the questionable part is how well it works. There is a lot of conflicting information on that, and people definitely have different feelings about what constitutes a "good" outcome -- if you've worn thick glasses your whole life and you consider them highly unattractive (however wrong that may be!), then I wouldn't be surprised if you were willing to see 20/40 with some halos at night if that meant you could dump the glasses. There are two women at my work who I know had it done, and I think they fit into this category. I don't know exactly what the results were for their surgeries, but they seem very happy. There are other stories here from people for whom it didn't go as well -- I haven't heard them say they regret doing it, and they aren't wearing glasses (except for reading, I guess -- they're older men).

Bottom line: different folks have different feelings on the matter. Obviously, if you love glasses, you hate the idea of anyone having LASIK. For me, though, it's sort of a constant temptation -- I'm a fairly serious athlete, and glasses just don't do well when I'm playing. I seem to be having more and more contact troubles which I'd very much like to be free of. I'm sure something similar goes through the minds of most people who have LASIK. But my corrected vision is very good, and I am pretty reluctant to risk messing that up...and I like wearing glasses a lot of the time.

Brad Pitt using a lorgnette? I'll believe it when I see it. I also know they can do a second procedure to refine the correction -- so I wonder if there is some reason they didn't do that in his case.

Alan

Julian 03 Apr 2002, 00:09

I'm surprised we haven't had a thread on this before, though it's been discussed on other parts of the BBS. I was prompted to start it when I read under 'Actors' that Brad Pitt having had laser surgery still needs correction and is using a lorgnette.

Why do people submit to this procedure? I'd have thought a surgeon treating a celebrity would have been extra careful to do the job perfectly - but there we are, BP using a lorgnette. We have had horror stories pointed out on various threads, but still the practitioners push it, and still people are taken in.

Intra-ocular lens implantation is safer, and of course reversible - so in case of a patient's myopia progressing further (or whatever) a new lens can be implanted.

What has the laser procedure got? Is it, perhaps, quick and cheap to perform? Some answers would be welcome.

Love and kisses, Jules.